BAttle bridge

[ftcwinners]

Does anyone have any suggestion for a battle bridge bot?

[VexMentor]

I myself, would make a robot for Bridge Battle that picks up lots of tennis balls and puts them in the trough.

[ftcwinners]

um thats pretty obvious lol...i was wondering if any one had any suggestions for the arm to pick up the balls.

[fredliu168]

I would use something like Occam's robot from last year. Its simple and very very effective.

[ftcwinners]

the design is simple but isnt it too tall to cross the bridge?

[fredliu168]

The bridge battle goal is approximately 18" to score and I believe around 14" to get under? Simply make the default/driving position of the robot under the minimum height. The arm should still easily reach over the 18".

[Technic-R-C]

The bridge battle goal is approximately 18" to score and I believe around 14" to get under? Simply make the default/driving position of the robot under the minimum height. The arm should still easily reach over the 18".


You are a little off.

To score, the height of the bridge is 14.5 inches
To drive under the bridge the height is 11.5 inches
The heights can vary +/- 1 inch, this most likely will not happen but you should design your bot accordingly


um thats pretty obvious lol...i was wondering if any one had any suggestions for the arm to pick up the balls.

An arm??? who says that it has to be an arm. I doubt that you will be able to score many balls fast by using a arm. Be creative! The Indianapolis Vex Bridge Battle Tournament I attended had MANY different types of robots, but only a couple worked great.

I can's say that I was shocked to the amount of robots that couldn't even cross the bridge and score. I spent over 6 weeks designing my robot and building it and now it works great (except for some small things that need to be fixed)

Good luck

Technic-R-C

[Lowfategg]

You could use a cut down version of our robot from last year.

http://teen-technology.org/robot.aspx

(do be reminded this IS AN EXTREMELY hard to build robot when done properly.) :)

[Techno-Turkey1]

Ive thought of 2-3 really good designs.

[Technic-R-C]

Care to share?

Hints?

I have seen many designs, some were really good, but they did not work well for the Bridge Battle competition.

Technic-R-C

[Drego]

The Syntax teams start designing tonight!

[Technic-R-C]

The Syntax teams start designing tonight!

Good luck,

keep your minds open to all designs.

Technic-R-C

[Drego]

Good luck,

keep your minds open to all designs.

Technic-R-C
We plan to spend about five hours total just drawing designs. So our minds will be open. lol

[kingswin82]

The Syntax teams start designing tonight!

I have 3 pretty good designs in mind. I can't wait!

[The_Wizard]

I hope to see these designs at the competition! Good luck

[kingswin82]

I hope to see these designs at the competition! Good luck

Oh you will, if we get the trip cleared by administration.

[Drego]

Oh you will, if we get the trip cleared by administration.
We may still be there even if it isn't cleared.

[kingswin82]

We may still be there even if it isn't cleared.

Greg is a god, we will be there.

[Drego]

Greg is a god, we will be there.
The Godfather, lol. Lets get back on topic. Has anybody found any other videos or pictures?

[Technic-R-C]

Currently on the web there are no pics of Bridge Battle robots except for the ones that won in Hawaii (on chiefdelphi.com) and the videos and pics from Indianapolis Bridge Battle.

Technic-R-C

[VexMentor]

No matter what you design for the Bridge Battle game, make sure it can score in Autonomous. The indianapolis tournament only had 8 out of the 28 there that could score during auto mode.

[Drego]

No matter what you design for the Bridge Battle game, make sure it can score in Autonomous. The indianapolis tournament only had 8 out of the 28 there that could score during auto mode.
Did those teams win?

[kingswin82]

No matter what you design for the Bridge Battle game, make sure it can score in Autonomous. The indianapolis tournament only had 8 out of the 28 there that could score during auto mode.

Did the people who could score just deposit the balls they start with or did they try to pick up more?

[Technic-R-C]

Did the people who could score just deposit the balls they start with or did they try to pick up more?

Almost all of the teams just deposited the balls that were pre-loaded into the robot. Not many teams attempted to collect more balls during autonomous and then try to score them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VexMentor
No matter what you design for the Bridge Battle game, make sure it can score in Autonomous. The indianapolis tournament only had 8 out of the 28 there that could score during auto mode.

Did those teams win?

Not necesarilly, they had an advantage but they were not guaranteed a win. I had an autonomous code that set me up for scoring, but I did not score. Even without this, I was #1 for all of the qualifying matches and then I was bumped down from first to second in my last qualifying match by one ball.

No matter what you design for the Bridge Battle game, make sure it can score in Autonomous. The indianapolis tournament only had 8 out of the 28 there that could score during auto mode.

I would take this bit of advice to heart.

Good luck

Technic-R-C

[Drego]

...Even without this, I was #1 for all of the qualifying matches and then I was bumped down from first to second in my last qualifying match by one ball...
That stinks.

For the start of autonomous, you only have to be touching the red or blue box, you do not need to be completly in it, correct?

[Technic-R-C]

That stinks.

For the start of autonomous, you only have to be touching the red or blue box, you do not need to be completly in it, correct?

<SG1> At the beginning of each match, the two alliance robots must be placed such that they are touching
one of the colored alliance station tiles for their alliance.

It states that the robot only has to be touching the starting tile. However during the competition this rule was DISREGARDED and I was very disappointed..... Some teams completely disregarded the starting tile and positioned their robot perpendicular and a couple of inches away from the bridge to score easily in autonomous. There were only a few teams that performed a real autonomous program that scored. However, if your team is disregarding this rule and your team wins then you will have to do some modifications for the world championship because i doubt that they will let you ignore this rule in California.

Technic-R-C

[The_Wizard]

Did anybody attempt to dispute that rule? I usually try to keep a copy of the rules with me at whatever tourney I'm at.

[kingswin82]

I noticed the referees at the Wisconsin regional werent familiar with the rules that much either.

[Drego]

I noticed the referees at the Wisconsin regional werent familiar with the rules that much either.
Yea we had to point some things out that they were doing wrong, not mentioning any specifics.

It's a little odd that nobody disputed it, also.

[The_Wizard]

No, I do remember in one match, I saw a team almost get away with their arm extended (mking them bigger than the 18" cube. When they put it back, the judges almose forgot to make them put their robot touhing the wall.

[kingswin82]

They were terrible, the refs I mean.

[corpralchee]

Although the refs sometimes make mistakes remember that they are volunteers. They don't have to be there. They don't get any real compensation for a long hard days of work. So be nice, if they are doing something wrong, kindly point it out to them. Whatever you do, Don't Trash The Refs.

[Monty Python]

Yeah, the refs can be a bit annoying, but as corpralchee said, they are all volunteers. Knowing that they are volunteers normally helps me get over that. There was this one time at Delaware for Quad Quandary though, the pole connecting the two 24 inch platforms fell out and they made us replay the match. We won something like 40-15, and they still made us replay it.

[Drego]

Yeah, the refs can be a bit annoying, but as corpralchee said, they are all volunteers. Knowing that they are volunteers normally helps me get over that. There was this one time at Delaware for Quad Quandary though, the pole connecting the two 24 inch platforms fell out and they made us replay the match. We won something like 40-15, and they still made us replay it.
The same thing happened in Wisconsin, only it was in the finals. They had to replay the match also.

[kingswin82]

The same thing happened in Wisconsin, only it was in the finals. They had to replay the match also.

The funny thing about it is that they were replaying that match due to a tie when it pulled out. So they had to replay it again.

[Drego]

The funny thing about it is that they were replaying that match due to a tie when it pulled out. So they had to replay it again.

Yea, in the end, one alliance won two matches and the other won one. In total, five matches were played for the finals.

[Sunny]

Where can we find where the birdge battle competitions are held? I personally think that if your robot is effecient enough with the balls, you may not need to cross under the bridge.

[Drego]

Where can we find where the birdge battle competitions are held? I personally think that if your robot is effecient enough with the balls, you may not need to cross under the bridge.
I totally agree, but if you are going to the Michagan regional, you might want to...:rolleyes:

[Technic-R-C]

Where can we find where the birdge battle competitions are held? I personally think that if your robot is effecient enough with the balls, you may not need to cross under the bridge.

Here is the Tournament list (http://www.robotevents.com/program.php?event_id=1&sortid=22)

I HIGHLY recommend that your robot is able to cross underneath the bridge.

Technic-R-C

[Sunny]

any special reason or... just the benefit. I mean if you can score like 20 balls at once, hint hint, is it really necessary?

There are more balls on the other side but...what's your input.

[Technic-R-C]

any special reason or... just the benefit. I mean if you can score like 20 balls at once, hint hint, is it really necessary?

There are more balls on the other side but...what's your input.

The chances of your alliance winning if you guys dont cross under the bridge are very low. Remember, the black balls basically determine the game. I'm not saying that you can't win with the 1 point balls, but from the competitions I have seen, almost all of the teams that won were able to cross the bridge and score black balls easily. If your team can score about 30 balls in a match, then you probably just need a good autonomous code and working robot. However, this is unlikely due to the interference and caos that the robots create.

Overall
Just build a robot that goes under and scores well and all your problems are solved.

Technic-R-C

P.S. I strongly reccommend an effective autonomous code.

[corpralchee]

Remember only half the balls are n the one sde of the field. So what happens when you score all those balls.

[Technic-R-C]

Remember only half the balls are n the one sde of the field. So what happens when you score all those balls.

If you score all of those balls then you have a really good robot, but the chances of this happening and winning is slim. The other team could drop all 3 black balls and additional yellow balls in the goal and easily be beating you within a couple of seconds. In the elimination matches, almost every round all the black balls would be scored. The black balls determine the winners of the match. I know you can win otherwise, but those are just the facts of the game.

Technic-R-C

P.S. make an innovative robot and do NOT depend on your teamate during the qualification matches

[Sunny]

I see what your saying. That's some true insight. And, when in the finals, the robots can go under and grab that bonus balls and score some tennis balls too will have the win.

Well, back to the drawing board..:D

[Sunny]

Would it be alright if we used EasyC pro to program our VEX robot or do we have to use EasyC V2.

[Technic-R-C]

As long as you are using the competition template and an updated master code than you are fine.

Technic-R-C

[Sunny]

Doe sanyone have any pictures/details/videos of any other competitions, we (Robotics Community) would love to see them. I believe the Asain Competitions have already occurred and the one in Baltimore has already been played.



Thank you.

[Technic-R-C]

Doe sanyone have any pictures/details/videos of any other competitions, we (Robotics Community) would love to see them. I believe the Asain Competitions have already occurred and the one in Baltimore has already been played.



Thank you.

There is a video on Youtube of one of the Bridge Battle qualification matches and some other matches from a foreign country. There are also some pics of the Hawaii Bridge Battle Champions on chiefdelphi.com However most teams are trying to refrain from posting images or videos because their ideas might be stolen.

Technic-R-C

P.S. there are no pics from the Asian Competitions

[Sunny]

Got it

where are those Hawaiian pictures again?

[Technic-R-C]

Here (www.chiefdelphi.com)

Search Hawaian Bridge Battle

Technic-R-C

[ManicMechanic]

Doe sanyone have any pictures/details/videos of any other competitions, we (Robotics Community) would love to see them. I believe the Asain Competitions have already occurred and the one in Baltimore has already been played.



Thank you.

Here's one from Indiana:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lLdE8o_u548&feature=related

[Sunny]

yes, i've already viewed this video.

thank you.

[Drego]

I've seen it also, the robots arem't very good.

[Sunny]

they're ok

the red alliance was strong but they could've held more balls.

[Vextreme Team]

i think it's really necessary to pass under the bridge, here all the robots could do it.

[kingswin82]

yes it is necessary, u cant always count on balls being on just that one side.

[Drego]

yes it is necessary, u cant always count on balls being on just that one side.
That's what you think now lol.

[kingswin82]

lol, i just didnt think it was possible to incorporate our design under 11 inches or w/e it is

[fredliu168]

Another alternative i to have a design that cannot go under the bridge but can steal balls from the opponent's goal. Of course with this strategy, it would be important to have an alliance partner that can go under the goal for obvious reasons.

[Technic-R-C]

Of course with this strategy, it would be important to have an alliance partner that can go under the goal for obvious reasons.

Don't count on it, make sure your robot can do everything by itself.

Technic-R-C

[kingswin82]

Yes, we have found out that you can't rely on your partner too much.

[corpralchee]

Don't count on it, make sure your robot can do everything by itself.

Technic-R-C

In a way your right but we have also found out that trying to do everything yourself often doesn't work out too well. We find that you end up being mediocre at several things instead of really good at one thing.

[kingswin82]

Ok? So you want me to rely on someone whose wheel falls off in autonomous.

[Technic-R-C]

In a way your right but we have also found out that trying to do everything yourself often doesn't work out too well. We find that you end up being mediocre at several things instead of really good at one thing.

But there are some things that are mandatory to do if you want to succeed in the long run. For example: Going under the bridge.

Technic-R-C

[Sunny]

Understood. I believe that you should do one thing well, but getting under the bridge is part of doing the one thing well. Assuming that your robot can score all the balls on one side of the bridge, then another weaker alliance can go under, score the bonus balls, and simply fifteen other balls and easy win. The bonus balls are key, and when you enter the finals, being able to obtain the bonus will be a primary factor.

[Drego]

Ok? So you want me to rely on someone whose wheel falls off in autonomous.
That was funny.

[Sunny]

wheels fall off???

Hopefully they had a loose collar and they weren't missing one...if they were *missing* one...[cringe].

[kingswin82]

they never had them on to begin with, lol

[corpralchee]

Hey, let's not put down other teams. Robotics is a learning experience, hopefully you kindly explained to the team what they did wrong and helped them fix the problem.

[kingswin82]

i'm sorry, did i ever mention their name?

[corpralchee]

Nope but it doesn't matter.

Now back on topic has anyone tried to de-score the balls and then score them in their trough? This would be especially important for the black balls.

[Sunny]

That would be hard unless you have an arm/conveyor that can dip into the troph. That would be tough, and there would be a pivot point up high.

[kingswin82]

I guess some people like telling other people what to do.

[Sunny]

???

Twas just a suggestion. I would be open to any other ideas about how to get the balls out.

:D

You could always break the bridge. That would always get the balls out.

[kingswin82]

oh no, i wasnt talking about u, sorry if it seemed like it

[Sunny]

oh, no prob.

:D

[fredliu168]

For Bridge Battle, are there other awards other than the Winners and Finalists? (such as inspire, innovate, think, etc...). Also do they provide trophies and metals at regional events?

[kingswin82]

I was wondering the same thing. Vex isnt going as indepth with everything as FIRST did.

[gblake]

I was wondering the same thing. Vex isnt going as indepth with everything as FIRST did.I (a successful engineer) for one will be glad to have at least one large scale competition open to my team that doesn not use "The Engineering Notebook". If IFI/Vex decides not to use them, I'll be happy about that aspect of their tournaments.

However, I do think that there is much to be said for awards of the ilk teams earn from FIRST. I would modify the FIRST criteria and awards a bit (see the paragraph above); but I would not want to see a large-scale tournament structure that did not include recognizing many of the things (and a few different ones) that the FIRST awards recognize.

So, in this off-topic conversation, I suppose I'm casting my vote for competitions that recognize more than just the highest scores on the field.

Blake

[kingswin82]

Yeah, the enigineering notebooks were a pain. We never did ours until the day before the competition, lol.

[fredliu168]

I personally liked the engineering notebook. It allowed our team to get awards through something other than engineering. It was a like a backup in case our robot failed. Also, it allowed people who don't really want to do engineering but are really good at organization to join the team.

Still, no one answered my question. For this year's BB, are there secondary awards other than finalist and winner?

[Sunny]

It doesn't seem like it does. The rules don't mention a secondary way to get into world, unless you are picked from the FTC t tournament and/or from Savage Soccer.

Gotta build a good robot now.

[gblake]

I personally liked the engineering notebook. It allowed our team to get awards through something other than engineering.
...
Still, no one answered my question. For this year's BB, are there secondary awards other than finalist and winner?Persistently straying off-topic again - There are ways to engage non-engineering students and to measure and reward the non-engineering attributes of a team, other than a notebook formatted the way FIRST asks teams to organize the FTC Engineering Notebooks. - I wholeheartedly endorse the result; just not that particular method.

[fredliu168]

I can understand the formatting. Imagine if every team submitted an engineering notebook that had a different format for every page. How hard would it be to judge which notebook is the best? How long would it take to read it?

You can probably understand why FIRST set a specific method of organization.

[Jason Morrella]

For Bridge Battle, are there other awards other than the Winners and Finalists? (such as inspire, innovate, think, etc...). Also do they provide trophies and metals at regional events?

For the upcoming Bridge Battle Vex World Championship, yes, there will be a number of awards. There will be a wide variety of awards, many specifically for robot performance and design, and many for team attributes and accomplishments. These competitions are about much more than just the performance of the robot. They are about teamwork, problem solving, brainstorming, engineering, troubleshooting, time management, project management, design process, passion, energy, learning and education (and much more I'm sure many of you can list).

We'll be sending a list of the Vex World Championship awards to the registered teams in the next couple weeks along with other event specific materials.

Regarding local/regional events next year, yes, there will be awards and trophies at those events also. Many of the specific details for the next season will be announced at the Vex Robotics World Championship May1-3.

[gblake]

I can understand the formatting. Imagine if every team submitted an engineering notebook that had a different format for every page. How hard would it be to judge which notebook is the best? How long would it take to read it?

You can probably understand why FIRST set a specific method of organization.Again - I didn't say that a consistent format would be bad (although see below...) what I said was that I strongly dislike the format they have chosen to request.

About how hard it would be to judge notebooks organized using different styles. Give me twenty notebooks intended to convey a team's start-to-now "engineering". Allow the authors to write them in a variety of styles. Have the authors mark the five pages in each that they want me to see first. I'll be able to tell you in short order which books succinctly, clearly and authentically record what they have done and learned. Combine that result with interviews and I'll be able to tell which teams followed well-thought out processes, and improved them over time.

I assert that the teams that researched, experimented, learned, and improved are the ones that should be rewarded; and that their notebooks are both a means to that end, and evidence of clear (or muddled) thinking. The notebooks are not the end goal. I don't want emphasize rewarding a team for having a good notebook if there isn't any useful progress recorded in it. I want to emphasize rewarding the teams' progress; and I want to give teams the freedom to express that progress in whatever way they think is best.

Conveying complex data in clear and insightful formats is a valuable skill that should be honed. Much creativity and many varying presentation styles are involved. Dictating the notebooks' format points the students in the wrong direction. I understand that they can both record the requested material and add to it anything else they care to add; but the required format does not explicitly encourage them to do both.

In the limited time that my team can devote to their notebook it seems we always have to use up that time just writing down the required boilerplate. We rarely get to the real meat of the engineering topics we are discussing.

Blake