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  #11  
Old 04-09-2012, 02:42 PM
drefalo drefalo is offline
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Re: Alliance system

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick TYler View Post
There are four high school (age roughly 14-18) divisions, each with about 100 teams. The winning alliances of each division will then play each other to determine an overall high school winner.

There are two middle school (age roughly 11-13, with no lower limit) divisions, each with about 75 teams. They winning alliances of the divisions play each other to determine the overall winner.

The college (university) division has 47 teams, and the winning school will be determined in divisional play.
We are going into the middle school division so there will be two leagues of around 75, an i right? Also if you qualify do you choose 2 teams to be in an alliance?
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  #12  
Old 04-09-2012, 04:41 PM
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jumper11 jumper11 is offline
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Re: Alliance system

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Originally Posted by PaperTowels9876 View Post
During elimination matches, all alliance teams are required to play in a minimum of one match. For example, say alliance #1 and alliance #8 are playing each other in the quarterfinal matches. If alliance #1 wins the first match with teams A and B, then team C and either team A or B would be required to play the second elimination match. This is to ensure that all teams on an alliance participate in every elimination round. If team #1 lost their first match, then team C would only be required to play in a match if team #1 won their second match.
This is not correct. Team C must be substituted into the second match regardless of the outcome of the first. Citation below, emphasis is in the manual, not mine.

Quote:
<T03> During matches, two teams from an alliance will play on the field. Any team which sits out the
first match in an elimination series, must play in the second match, with no exceptions.
In the third
and any subsequent matches, any two of the three teams may play. Prior to each Elimination Match, the
Alliance Captain must let the referee know which two teams will be playing in the upcoming match.
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  #13  
Old 04-09-2012, 07:22 PM
meatboy123 meatboy123 is offline
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Re: Alliance system

ive seen tournaments with 2 and 3 team alliances, and i prefer 2 team alliances because at small tournaments sometimes having the number 1 seed have a third partner brings the team down.
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  #14  
Old 04-10-2012, 08:09 AM
SweetMochi SweetMochi is offline
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Re: Alliance system

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Originally Posted by meatboy123 View Post
ive seen tournaments with 2 and 3 team alliances, and i prefer 2 team alliances because at small tournaments sometimes having the number 1 seed have a third partner brings the team down.
I'd say that's where the importance of scouting comes into play. While the first picks are usually pretty obvious, a sign of a good team is being able to make a solid second pick to round out the alliance. In theory the 1st alliance gets the best first pick and the best second pick, if they do the work to figure out who those two picks are.
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  #15  
Old 04-13-2012, 08:46 PM
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The VEX Raptors The VEX Raptors is offline
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Re: Alliance system

Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetMochi View Post
I'd say that's where the importance of scouting comes into play. While the first picks are usually pretty obvious, a sign of a good team is being able to make a solid second pick to round out the alliance. In theory the 1st alliance gets the best first pick and the best second pick, if they do the work to figure out who those two picks are.
One of the strongest teams in our area always looses half of its qual. matches on purpose to stick itself in a strategically low rank, and then the 1st alliance picks them as their second pick. This results in an alliance of 3 very strong teams. They clean up most of the elimination rounds in 2 matches.

At our last tournament, we knew this, and we were the 3rd seed alliance, so we picked them when the 1st and 2nd alliances didn't.
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  #16  
Old 04-13-2012, 11:35 PM
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tabor473 tabor473 is offline
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Re: Alliance system

it seams that teams that more or less forfeit matches are taking the fun out of it
this competition is about learning how to build robots and understanding who has a good robot is part of that


ps. English team do you like my avatar
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  #17  
Old 04-14-2012, 07:07 AM
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The VEX Raptors The VEX Raptors is offline
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Re: Alliance system

Quote:
Originally Posted by tabor473 View Post
it seams that teams that more or less forfeit matches are taking the fun out of it
this competition is about learning how to build robots and understanding who has a good robot is part of that


ps. English team do you like my avatar
Haha, I was just joking. If a school actually made 24 serious teams, though, their competition would be very fun to watch.

I'm not English, but I like your avatar! David Tennant was my favorite Doctor.
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  #18  
Old 04-14-2012, 02:49 PM
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tabor473 tabor473 is offline
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Re: Alliance system

i saw this a few months ago and made it my avatar for everything and my facebook picture
i was asking the guy that started this thread but glad you like it
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  #19  
Old 04-14-2012, 03:32 PM
tall668 tall668 is offline
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Re: Alliance system

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Originally Posted by tabor473 View Post
i saw this a few months ago and made it my avatar for everything and my facebook picture
i was asking the guy that started this thread but glad you like it
I thing it's kinda funny, but we have many great actors in Britian!
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  #20  
Old 04-14-2012, 06:37 PM
ManicMechanic ManicMechanic is offline
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Re: Alliance system

Quote:
Originally Posted by The VEX Raptors View Post
One of the strongest teams in our area always looses half of its qual. matches on purpose to stick itself in a strategically low rank, and then the 1st alliance picks them as their second pick. This results in an alliance of 3 very strong teams. They clean up most of the elimination rounds in 2 matches.

At our last tournament, we knew this, and we were the 3rd seed alliance, so we picked them when the 1st and 2nd alliances didn't.
This sounds risky to me -- it means that you're at the mercy of the scouts on other teams to determine your fate, and you run the risk of not getting picked at all. At one event, the team ranked 14th. Despite a poor start, they had improved throughout the day and hoped to be selected. However, 6 of the 8 alliances were composed of 3 teams from the same school and and as an "orphan team", we were not selected. The following event, the team ranked 5th, which was higher than deserved. Rather than trying to lose the last match, lower their rank and hope that they would be picked by a better team, they went for broke, ended up as seed captains, and were eliminated in the quarterfinals against a stronger 4th seed alliance. When I asked the team which scenario they preferred, they answered, "Being seed captain, because our outcome is in our hands, not someone else's." It was also flattering to be approached by several teams begging to be picked, teams that they considered better than them.

Another possible undesirable scenario is that you might be the first pick of a high-ranking but mediocre team, where there's no choice but to accept the offer, as you can't be chosen by a "better" team, and you rank too low to be a seed captain.

There was one year when our team had the interesting dilemma of being ranked first, despite having what I would consider the 15th best robot (out of 30). There was great potential to make many enemies that day, as the team considered doing the "strategic" thing, which was to invite seed captains 2-8, be turned down by them all, forcing them not to pick each other. You could also see all the mid-ranked teams who were hoping to get picked by a good alliance captain shuddering in their boots -- notably, not a single team approached them that day hoping to be picked. In the end, they approached 2 teams before alliance selection who were both good sports and diamonds in the rough. They avoided humiliation by choosing not to invite top 8 teams, and ended up as the finalist alliance, a better outcome than expected.
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Last edited by ManicMechanic; 04-14-2012 at 08:06 PM. Reason: grammar
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