Alliance system

[drefalo]

Originally Posted by Rick TYler

There are four high school (age roughly 14-18) divisions, each with about 100 teams. The winning alliances of each division will then play each other to determine an overall high school winner.

There are two middle school (age roughly 11-13, with no lower limit) divisions, each with about 75 teams. They winning alliances of the divisions play each other to determine the overall winner.

The college (university) division has 47 teams, and the winning school will be determined in divisional play.

We are going into the middle school division so there will be two leagues of around 75, an i right? Also if you qualify do you choose 2 teams to be in an alliance?

[jumper11]

Originally Posted by PaperTowels9876

During elimination matches, all alliance teams are required to play in a minimum of one match. For example, say alliance #1 and alliance #8 are playing each other in the quarterfinal matches. If alliance #1 wins the first match with teams A and B, then team C and either team A or B would be required to play the second elimination match. This is to ensure that all teams on an alliance participate in every elimination round. If team #1 lost their first match, then team C would only be required to play in a match if team #1 won their second match.

This is not correct. Team C must be substituted into the second match regardless of the outcome of the first. Citation below, emphasis is in the manual, not mine.

<T03> During matches, two teams from an alliance will play on the field. Any team which sits out the
first match in an elimination series, must play in the second match, with no exceptions. In the third
and any subsequent matches, any two of the three teams may play. Prior to each Elimination Match, the
Alliance Captain must let the referee know which two teams will be playing in the upcoming match.

[meatboy123]

ive seen tournaments with 2 and 3 team alliances, and i prefer 2 team alliances because at small tournaments sometimes having the number 1 seed have a third partner brings the team down.

[SweetMochi]

Originally Posted by meatboy123

ive seen tournaments with 2 and 3 team alliances, and i prefer 2 team alliances because at small tournaments sometimes having the number 1 seed have a third partner brings the team down.

I'd say that's where the importance of scouting comes into play. While the first picks are usually pretty obvious, a sign of a good team is being able to make a solid second pick to round out the alliance. In theory the 1st alliance gets the best first pick and the best second pick, if they do the work to figure out who those two picks are.

[The VEX Raptors]

Originally Posted by SweetMochi

I'd say that's where the importance of scouting comes into play. While the first picks are usually pretty obvious, a sign of a good team is being able to make a solid second pick to round out the alliance. In theory the 1st alliance gets the best first pick and the best second pick, if they do the work to figure out who those two picks are.

One of the strongest teams in our area always looses half of its qual. matches on purpose to stick itself in a strategically low rank, and then the 1st alliance picks them as their second pick. This results in an alliance of 3 very strong teams. They clean up most of the elimination rounds in 2 matches.

At our last tournament, we knew this, and we were the 3rd seed alliance, so we picked them when the 1st and 2nd alliances didn't.

[tabor473]

it seams that teams that more or less forfeit matches are taking the fun out of it
this competition is about learning how to build robots and understanding who has a good robot is part of that


ps. English team do you like my avatar

[The VEX Raptors]

Originally Posted by tabor473

it seams that teams that more or less forfeit matches are taking the fun out of it
this competition is about learning how to build robots and understanding who has a good robot is part of that


ps. English team do you like my avatar

Haha, I was just joking. If a school actually made 24 serious teams, though, their competition would be very fun to watch.

I'm not English, but I like your avatar! David Tennant was my favorite Doctor.

[tabor473]

i saw this a few months ago and made it my avatar for everything and my facebook picture
i was asking the guy that started this thread but glad you like it

[tall668]

Originally Posted by tabor473

i saw this a few months ago and made it my avatar for everything and my facebook picture
i was asking the guy that started this thread but glad you like it

I thing it's kinda funny, but we have many great actors in Britian!

[ManicMechanic]

Originally Posted by The VEX Raptors

One of the strongest teams in our area always looses half of its qual. matches on purpose to stick itself in a strategically low rank, and then the 1st alliance picks them as their second pick. This results in an alliance of 3 very strong teams. They clean up most of the elimination rounds in 2 matches.

At our last tournament, we knew this, and we were the 3rd seed alliance, so we picked them when the 1st and 2nd alliances didn't.

This sounds risky to me -- it means that you're at the mercy of the scouts on other teams to determine your fate, and you run the risk of not getting picked at all. At one event, the team ranked 14th. Despite a poor start, they had improved throughout the day and hoped to be selected. However, 6 of the 8 alliances were composed of 3 teams from the same school and and as an "orphan team", we were not selected. The following event, the team ranked 5th, which was higher than deserved. Rather than trying to lose the last match, lower their rank and hope that they would be picked by a better team, they went for broke, ended up as seed captains, and were eliminated in the quarterfinals against a stronger 4th seed alliance. When I asked the team which scenario they preferred, they answered, "Being seed captain, because our outcome is in our hands, not someone else's." It was also flattering to be approached by several teams begging to be picked, teams that they considered better than them.

Another possible undesirable scenario is that you might be the first pick of a high-ranking but mediocre team, where there's no choice but to accept the offer, as you can't be chosen by a "better" team, and you rank too low to be a seed captain.

There was one year when our team had the interesting dilemma of being ranked first, despite having what I would consider the 15th best robot (out of 30). There was great potential to make many enemies that day, as the team considered doing the "strategic" thing, which was to invite seed captains 2-8, be turned down by them all, forcing them not to pick each other. You could also see all the mid-ranked teams who were hoping to get picked by a good alliance captain shuddering in their boots -- notably, not a single team approached them that day hoping to be picked. In the end, they approached 2 teams before alliance selection who were both good sports and diamonds in the rough. They avoided humiliation by choosing not to invite top 8 teams, and ended up as the finalist alliance, a better outcome than expected.