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  #31  
Old 05-05-2009, 03:48 PM
DinerKid DinerKid is offline
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Re: Miscount

He is right winning is cool. but learning about something you care about is even better. Lets face it only 1 alliance will win out of tons of teams. However most people who participate will gain an unforgettable experience of learning about robotics in a fun semi competitive way. And even if a team doesn't win or even win a single match if they have a true love for robotics they will stick with it.
  #32  
Old 05-05-2009, 07:14 PM
Blake Ross Blake Ross is offline
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Re: Miscount

Quote:
Originally Posted by corpralchee View Post
... people who you should have the greatest respect for.
Corpralchee, If I may briefly count myself in the group you are referring to (and hopefully express a sentiment shared by that group), I would like to suggest moderating what you wrote here, just a bit.

"Respect" - Yes.

"Greatest respect" - Well, in my case at least, I would prefer you reserve your greatest respect for the many past and present role models out there who deserve it far more than us hard-working robotics refs and judges.

We put our pants on one leg at a time, just like you all do; and you all can choose to do what we do, and more.

We don't need to be on pedestals; but we are pleased when our example to others occasionally lets us pay-forward the inspiration we received from the women and men who were our role models.

Instead of thinking of what we do as being "the exception", let's all make it "the rule".

Service before self.... Is it your turn today?

Thanks for listening,
Blake
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  #33  
Old 05-05-2009, 07:52 PM
mohamma48625 mohamma48625 is offline
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Re: Miscount

have respect?
for the guy that ruined it for us?

sounds great.

and tis true, the older u are..the more stubborn.


btw, is was called thta the robot was touching the cube, that matter was settled before the field reset.
  #34  
Old 05-05-2009, 08:10 PM
Blake Ross Blake Ross is offline
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Re: Miscount

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohamma48625 View Post
have respect?
for the guy that ruined it for us?

sounds great.

and tis true, the older u are..the more stubborn.


btw, is was called thta the robot was touching the cube, that matter was settled before the field reset.
Have a nice life...

I'm done for now.
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  #35  
Old 05-06-2009, 06:15 AM
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pjohn1959 pjohn1959 is offline
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Re: Miscount

Quote:
Originally Posted by BPSRoboBucs429 View Post
I am also not very comfortable with some of the stories people have been so kind to share about ways in which their team has faced some adversity. It seems like a sense of entitlement has befallen some of us, an entitlement that all teams participating seemingly should feel this adversity, and when they do it is no one's fault but themselves for expecting it.
Then you are misunderstanding what the posts are trying to explain. Yes, there were some unfortunate incidents that happened, but the end result should be the knowledge and team work that was put forth for this season. This should be carried over to the next year's competiton in a positive manner, and not a negative way. Winning isn't everything, yes it's a great feeling, but that is not what the overall objective is. Again I point to what Gracious Professionalism is. This should be everyone's motto.

Quote:
Gracious Professionalism: It's a way of doing things that encourages high-quality work, emphasizes the value of others, and respects individuals and the community.

With Gracious Professionalism, fierce competition and mutual gain are not separate notions. Gracious professionals learn and compete like crazy, but treat one another with respect and kindness in the process. They avoid treating anyone like losers. No chest thumping tough talk, but no sticky-sweet platitudes either. Knowledge, competition, and empathy are comfortably blended.

In the long run, Gracious Professionalism is part of pursuing a meaningful life. One can add to society and enjoy the satisfaction of knowing one has acted with integrity and sensitivity.
Quote:
If there is an issue with the consistency of scoring matches then it should be an issue to address, and I feel the treatment of this team member has been a little bit unfair and unwaranted. He came merely questioning a rule, and was met with a little bit of a rude response.
There is absolutely nothing wrong in questioning a call from an official or a referee. However, when all of the sarcastic remarks and the personal attacks on a targeted individual happen, then that is where the community loses respect for that person and his/her ideas.
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  #36  
Old 05-06-2009, 08:36 AM
bons bons is offline
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Re: Miscount

Quote:
Originally Posted by BPSRoboBucs429 View Post
If there is an issue with the consistency of scoring matches then it should be an issue to adress
Actually, the issue going forward was addressed on page one. Since then it mostly appears to be a desire to retroactively change what happened.

In addition to the suggestions on page one, you will notice that this year's game manual states:
"<G13> Replays are at the discretion of the event organizer and head referee. Possible reasons for a replay could be attributed to an error or failure of official field personnel, the scoring system, the field controls, or the field itself"

I'm not sure what else the people want that can be considered "positive" for the community.
  #37  
Old 05-06-2009, 09:15 AM
ManicMechanic ManicMechanic is offline
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Re: Miscount

Quote:
Originally Posted by BPSRoboBucs429 View Post
I understand these referees are primarily volunteers, but I feel it doesn't necessarily earn a free pass.
The rules explicitly state that the team has the right to challenge a decision within 2 matches, which they did. The rules state that the ref will review the decision (and that video replays are not allowed), which he did. The rules also state that the ref's word is final. While I wouldn't quite call the last statement a "free pass", it does mean that the ref is a higher authority than the team. In agreeing to play this year's game, participants all agreed to accept that condition. Since allowable avenues have been exhausted, there is nothing that can be done to change the ruling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BPSRoboBucs429 View Post
I'm not sure if people are surprised he is upset or if they just are happy to dismiss it...
The team does not have to like the ruling, and they have the right to feel however they please. Most of us would feel frustration in the same situation, which is what others have been trying to communicate. However, the team's feelings translated into the action of speaking unkindly against the ref, who acted according to the rules. Many of us object to this unkind treatment of someone who was not merely "doing his job" but has gone far above and beyond the call of duty to serve us.

No further actions can be taken to change the outcome of this year's season but the team has a number of choices for the future:
1) Appeal to the game committee to change/modify the "ref's word is final" rule for future years.
2) Choose not to enroll in future years. When I don't like a product, I generally vote with my feet and my wallet, and there are plenty of other robotics competitions out there.
3) Decide, "I didn't like ___ aspect of the experience, but I'll accept it because ___ was good enough to offset the negative parts." Then accept it.
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  #38  
Old 05-06-2009, 01:12 PM
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fredliu168 fredliu168 is offline
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Re: Miscount

Exact same thing happened to our alliance in the World FTC semifinals last year. Video and pictures showed our alliance won the match by 3 points, but the field referees counted an additional 5 point ring (that was not rung at the end of the match) for the other alliance. Their reason was that our alliance knocked the ring off during the match.

After reviewing video, talking with other alliances who watched the match, and being bombarded by webcast viewers who all said the score was incorrect, it was clear that the "knocked off" ring was non-existant, since our entire alliance did not go near the tall posts the entire match.

It's the worst way to lose, but the refs are just volunteers who sometimes make mistakes. I know there was nothing malicious about the call, and it just inspires me to work harder next year.
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Last edited by fredliu168; 05-06-2009 at 01:12 PM. Reason: added "World FTC"
  #39  
Old 05-06-2009, 01:17 PM
DinerKid DinerKid is offline
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Re: Miscount

there are things you can control and things you cant.

you can not really control the rules.

just try really hard to perfect the things you can control. if you make a bot that wins by 50pts then there is no way a small mishap in counting will effect the outcome of the match. let it go and start designing a great bot for this year.
 


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