Skills Scores not Qualifying for State Championships?

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  2. 9 months ago
    Deleted 9 months ago by Chiraag1000
  3. Tim Jang

    13 Feb 2018 California 6627X

    To add on to the discussion, I believe all three California State Championships should have the same number of teams attending.

  4. As one of the teams that worked on getting a high skills score with the notion that skills scores will be used to fill up spots in states, it seems really unfair that the spots were just taken away. It just seems unfair to us and all the other teams who also can't go to states because of this.

  5. CyberHawks7983

    13 Feb 2018 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Bakersfield, CA 7983 (A,J,K,M,R,U,W,Z)

    @Tim Jang To add on to the discussion, I believe all three California State Championships should have the same number of teams attending.

    It does seem weird to have one with 51, one with 48, and the third with 34... (though I wish it was back to one big tournament for CA again, that was fun)

  6. Edited 9 months ago by johnsonandjohnson

    @Tim Jang To add on to the discussion, I believe all three California State Championships should have the same number of teams attending.

    Honestly shouldn't that just be common sense? I don't get how it's fair to give the same amount of qualification spots to all three tournaments, yet one has 16 fewer teams.

  7. Ashwin Gupta

    13 Feb 2018 California FRC 3476
    Edited 9 months ago by Ashwin Gupta

    @johnsonandjohnson Honestly shouldn't that just be common sense? I don't get how it's fair to give the same amount of qualification spots to all three tournaments, yet one has 16 fewer teams.

    Absolutely true. At the very least distribute a proportional number of spots. But preferably balance it equally. This could be easily solved by simply filling up each tournament to a capacity of 51 and allowing the remaining 20 spots filled by skills teams.

    ps. my team is not directly effected by this as we are multiple qualled otherwise, this just seems fair to me.

  8. Dokkaebi

    13 Feb 2018 Deal with it I like chocolate

    What the heck RECF? This is one of the most unethical decisions you've made. You always go on and on about how much you care about the students, but you now pull something like this? Teams have spent months and countless hours trying to perfect their robot for what is honestly the hardest part of VRC this year. I hope that all this community feedback will make you change your minds that you apparently just lost.

  9. 9065_Parker

    13 Feb 2018 Platte City Missouri 9065C

    Honestly, this feels like a game that has 0 decisions made correctly, the recf never should've gone ahead without even informing teams. Without even informing teams this has become a mess, and has put alot of teams out to the street without considering what they said would qualify vs. What actually does, this is wrong, and this needs to be undone to ensure that teams can trust the recf.

  10. biglesliep

    13 Feb 2018 Menlo Park, CA 1666

    My team is in spot #10 on the list linked above. I just fired off an email to Nancy McIntyre, the NorCal RECF representative, and this is her response:

    We moved the spots to Bakersfield and have placed more teams at the state level than in any previous year. We do not need to fill spots. We have more than 170 events feeding qualified teams.

    Sorry, I just don't see how you could go from 16 empty spots to "we have enough qualified teams" overnight, and taking 12 away from one location and adding 3 at another. WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE 3 SKILLS-ONLY EVENTS LAST WEEKEND? HOW LONG HAVE THEY BEEN PLANNING TO DO THIS?

    And who cares how many events were feeding qualified teams -- many many teams qualify multiple times. I would like RECF to state clearly exactly how many teams did qualify from tournaments and be transparent about the numbers.

    I am distraught (and mad); our kids worked so hard on their skills with the intention of doing just what they did -- getting high up on that list of non-qualified skills scores.

  11. biglesliep

    13 Feb 2018 Menlo Park, CA 1666

    I will also add that Robot Skills in general this year has gotten the shaft hugely. In all of the tournaments in Northern CA this year (I believe), the skills winner DOES NOT QUALIFY FOR STATES. You get a shiny trophy and get to go home, even if you scored 120 points.

  12. Unionjackjz1

    13 Feb 2018 Van Nuys, California 21S

    @biglesliep

    I understand your frustration with the situation, but please stay gracious and professional.

  13. biglesliep

    13 Feb 2018 Menlo Park, CA 1666
    Edited 9 months ago by biglesliep

    @Unionjackjz1 - I am trying. I would like RECF to be professional and transparent about what has happened. Their response of "we have enough teams" doesn't hold water when they deleted 12 spots.

    Edit: I just looked at every single event in the state of California for In The Zone. In exactly 1 of the 170 events mentioned above does Robot Skills winner get you to the state level; most qualify one for the Create US Open, but that's not why people do skills around here -- it's to move up *this* pyramid.

    And what about the 3 state championship locations? Nope. Robot Skills winner does not qualify for Worlds. So the ONLY reason to do skills all year was (before today) to qualify for states as a filler team. And now there is no reason to do skills, ever. (OK, well, if you're one of the 11 teams in the entire state of California to be in the top 35 and going to Worlds, then you'd want to do skills. That is a very small group.)

  14. lacsap

    13 Feb 2018 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Massachusetts 9791[a-z]

    @biglesliep And what about the 3 state championship locations? Nope. Robot Skills winner does not qualify for Worlds.

    Actually, the reason to have Robot Skills at a State/Regional/National event is to establish a World Skills Ranking. For HS top 35 world skills rank will get you to Worlds and MS top 15 will qualify for Worlds. So there is value for both skills only events and running skills at State/Regional/National events. This can benefit regions, such as Singapore, which has few spots allotted to them, which they make up by building great robots and placing in the top World Skills Rankings.

  15. meng

    13 Feb 2018 Singapore 8059
    Edited 9 months ago by meng

    @lacsap Actually, the reason to have Robot Skills at a State/Regional/National event is to establish a World Skills Ranking. For HS top 35 world skills rank will get you to Worlds and MS top 15 will qualify for Worlds. So there is value for both skills only events and running skills at State/Regional/National events. This can benefit regions, such as Singapore, which has few spots allotted to them, which they make up by building great robots and placing in the top World Skills Rankings.

    This year, we are only given one spot for HS.

    But I agree with you... in fact, the world skills ranking is good for everyone.
    Eg. Even if the team couldn’t make it to states, the skills ranking will still allow them to go for the bigger prize - worlds.

  16. lacsap

    13 Feb 2018 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Massachusetts 9791[a-z]

    @meng This year, we are only given one spot for HS.

    But I agree with you... in fact, the world skills ranking is good for everyone.
    Eg. Even if the team couldn’t make it to states, the skills ranking will still allow them to go for the bigger prize - worlds.

    I thought you also have a spot for MS? I was overly generous with the term "few". I have always admired how strong your teams are, and that is largely due to necessity.

  17. meng

    13 Feb 2018 Singapore 8059

    @lacsap I thought you also have a spot for MS? I was overly generous with the term "few". I have always admired how strong your teams are, and that is largely due to necessity.

    One for HS that’s confirmed.
    But last that I heard, the MS spot may not be confirmed :(

    It is largely due to necessity. We just got to adapt and survive.
    But I do challenge my teams to win the worlds... but it takes a lot more than great robot and great team to win though.

  18. Gear Geeks

    13 Feb 2018 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Virginia, USA 8044

    @lacsap Actually, the reason to have Robot Skills at a State/Regional/National event is to establish a World Skills Ranking. For HS top 35 world skills rank will get you to Worlds and MS top 15 will qualify for Worlds. So there is value for both skills only events and running skills at State/Regional/National events. This can benefit regions, such as Singapore, which has few spots allotted to them, which they make up by building great robots and placing in the top World Skills Rankings.

    I have never had my teams participate in skills with the belief that they would qualify for the top 50 or 35. They participate in order to (1) qualify for states in case they don't qualify through an event and (2) possibly qualify for worlds at our state tournament in case of double qualifications.

  19. meng

    13 Feb 2018 Singapore 8059

    @Gear Geeks I have never had my teams participate in skills with the belief that they would qualify for the top 50 or 35. They participate in order to (1) qualify for states in case they don't qualify through an event and (2) possibly qualify for worlds at our state tournament in case of double qualifications.

    But shouldn’t the teams aim to get as high a score as possible? If they got into top 35, then they will qualify for both states and worlds as well.
    Aim for the stars, and if you miss, you will at least land on the moon :)

    Maybe it is a very different situation between Singapore and USA, or maybe it is like what @lacsap mentioned - out of necessity on our part.... but I do believe in setting the bar high for the kids and get them to have a go at it :)

  20. JayM

    13 Feb 2018 Teachers/Coaches, Event Partner Greenwood, IN 323

    @biglesliep I will also add that Robot Skills in general this year has gotten the shaft hugely. In all of the tournaments in Northern CA this year (I believe), the skills winner DOES NOT QUALIFY FOR STATES. You get a shiny trophy and get to go home, even if you scored 120 points.

    Skills at qualifying events hasn't earned a spot to the Indiana state championship for several years. Only tournament champions and excellence go direct to state here, but open spots are pulled from the skills rankings. Right now there are 12 open spots for state with two events remaining. Most of the spots at the remaining events will likely be taken by teams already qualified, so I expect at least 8-10 teams to make it to state through skills.

    Sorry you are having to deal with this and I know there would be a huge backlash in Indiana if the same thing was done here. I thought the number of spots at our state championships (IQ and VRC) were a little low to start with, but it is much easier to add spots than to remove them. I'm glad our RECF rep didn't put us in your situation.

  21. Deleted 9 months ago by antichamber
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