6007

  1. 3 months ago

    tabor473

    Mar 13 V5 Beta Tester OYES, WPI
    Edited 3 months ago by DRow

    @truthbomb @DanMantz Why is 6007x on the team list for Worlds? How can a team violate the Robot Rules intentionally and thereby invoke rule <R21>, but still be allowed to compete at Worlds? How can high-level team and sophisticated for-profit organization like Rolling Robots be allowed to throw into question the results of a state championship event and still be rewarded? Are you going to maintain the integrity of this competition or not?

    @B-Kinney @truthbomb:

    6007X qualified for Worlds by getting into the top 35 in the World Skills Rankings, at a Skills-Only event after the State Championship was over.

    (VexDB does not show the results yet, but they can be found on the Robot Events page for the event and on the World Skills Rankings .)

    @tabor473 Because nothing in the rules says a robot inspection violation results in a DQ from multiple events. And now the team put up an incredibly impressive skills score.
    https://www.robotevents.com/robot-competitions/vex-robotics-competition/RE-VRC-17-3323.html

    @truthbomb @B-Kinney @tabor473 I suggest you read <R21> more carefully. Doesn't matter if they fly to Utah on 3/10/18 for a 19-team skills event to get in the back door. Re-read. Discretion. Discretion = adults at REC and VEX making hard decisions for the good of the sport.

    @Easton @Aeden_6007 said this modification was an unintentional oversight. If you don't read the game manual completely and don't see the rule regarding pneumatic modification, you could easily think drilling a hole in an air tank would count as physical modification, which is allowed. It requires a lot of evidence to prove a team was intentionally circumventing the rules, which is specifically what the rule states.

    @meng I am not there at the Utah competition, but I can imagine they should have mounted their air tanks in a proper and legal way this time round.

    Just curious... are you suggesting that any teams that found to have violated a robot rule to be banned from all future events ( = banned from vex) ?

    In any case, R21 says... “maybe” banned, so it is not a absolute and it is at the discretion of the gdc. So as Long as gdc didn’t banned them from future events, their skills scores will be considered as legal.

    Let’s not add on to this already highly-charged issue. Let’s give recf some space and time to sort out the issue :)

    @Ethan_6007X we didn't have air tanks on skills bot
    @meng

    @meng I’m accidentally deleted my own post. I know that’s really silly... lol.
    Any chance that anyone managed to capture my post before I deleted it?
    Hoping not to retype the post...

    @truthbomb @Easton Oh, @Aeden_6007 said it was an "intentional oversight". Case closed then I guess. Ask @Aeden_6007 how and where he made those precision cuts to his pneumatics. Ask @Aeden_6007 how his team, which used pneumatics last year to win the Science Division, could be so "careless". Then ask yourself, should a highly-sophisticated, for-profit organization like Rolling Robots - who literally make their living off VEX Robotics and need championships to sell their wares - receive the benefit of the doubt?

    @B-Kinney There is a button in the upper right corner of the post, that enables you to un-delete it.

    @thedarry To say that 6007 intentionally circumvented the rules to gain an advantage is a big claim without significant evidence. To be honest I don't see how they gained much advantage at all by having holes to bolt/ziptie the tanks to their robot. In my opinion <R21> should be reserved for teams that make particularly malicious and underhanded cheating, that intend to give huge benefits to the team (e.g.: Modding motors). Whereas 6007 just seemed to have made a silly oversight.
    Props to them for qualifying for worlds with such a short turn around though.

    @meng @truthbomb no idea who you are... but you joined the forum yesterday and all (except for one) posts are in this thread. It does look like you have an axe to grind with those 2 teams that you mentioned.
    But please do it out of this forum.

    Let us not add on to this already highly-charged issue... let us give space and time for recf to sort out the issue :)

    @truthbomb @meng Are you the head witchhunter now that you don't like the information I have presented here? What about what I have posted today suggests I have an "axe to grind" against 6007X? There's a lot of emotion on this board since this thread began. We are not part of it. We are interested in the integrity of VEX Robotics competition. @meng stop acting like an authority figure.

    @Ethan_6007X Hi, @truthbomb to clarify we did not try to gain an advantage. The pneumatics on 6007's worlds robot did not have drilled holes in them. I would like to put an end to this conversation by saying Rolling Robots is a great organization who teaches orphans about basic electronics, they throw parties for kids with mental disabilities, and how Rolling robots is much more than an organization to us competitors and more like a second home. They do so much for us and others. We are very thankful for that.

    @tabor473 @truthbomb
    @meng
    I made a new thread and copied everyone's posts over there. This argument is a fair one to have but it is completely off topic on this thread and will be deleted by the mods at some point. I suggest you move discussion there.
    https://www.vexforum.com/index.php/32570-6007

    @DRow

    @truthbomb @tabor473 Thank you. I have nothing left to post today unless I see a response from @DanMantz . However, I have some more bombs to drop and they are based on posts in this thread which will be proven to be false. @Ethan_6007X , you guys have not taken responsibility for your actions. Think about that.

    @meng I am not witch hunting anyone. It is very obvious that you came into forum and kept hitting on this thread.
    So it is not abt me trying to act like an authority figure... it is about being a sensible user of the forum. We are trying to calm the situation... not sitrred things up.
    And I really don’t see any concrete evidence/info that you are providing.

    But what I am suggesting is that if you are holding on to any valuable info that you think it will help with the investigation, then please present it to recf directly.... posting this way at the forum is not going to help.

  2. Easton

    Mar 13 GA, USA 1958A
    Edited 3 months ago by Easton

    @truthbomb @Easton Oh, @Aeden_6007 said it was an "intentional oversight". Case closed then I guess. Ask @Aeden_6007 how and where he made those precision cuts to his pneumatics. Ask @Aeden_6007 how his team, which used pneumatics last year to win the Science Division, could be so "careless". Then ask yourself, should a highly-sophisticated, for-profit organization like Rolling Robots - who literally make their living off VEX Robotics and need championships to sell their wares - receive the benefit of the doubt?

    As they say, innocent until proven guilty. Also, the burden of proof falls upon the accuser (you in this case), so if you find actual proof that they did the modification on purpose, let me know.
    Also, I agree with @thedarry that this modification didn't provide a significant advantage to them.

  3. Mystellianne

    Mar 13 Miami, Florida 4411S

    @Easton As they say, innocent until proven guilty. Also, the burden of proof falls upon the accuser (you in this case), so if you find actual proof that they did the modification on purpose, let me know.
    Also, I agree with @thedarry that this modification didn't provide a significant advantage to them.

    +1

  4. Deleted 3 months ago by Ethan_6007X
  5. 1961Uranium

    Mar 14 Georgia, United States Blitz Alliance 1961U

    @Easton As they say, innocent until proven guilty. Also, the burden of proof falls upon the accuser (you in this case), so if you find actual proof that they did the modification on purpose, let me know.
    Also, I agree with @thedarry that this modification didn't provide a significant advantage to them.

    +100

  6. CharlieTheStarlord

    Mar 14 Lawrenceville, GA 675A

    +1000

  7. You’re dropping a lot of bombs but there’s not much truth to them. Rolling Robots is not a malicious organization. Aside from some unsportsmanlike discord comments (made by users that are not on 6007), I’m not sure how they could be seen as nasty. Saying that they are “for profit” is also totally irrelevant. Would you say the grocery store you buy your food from is evil because they gain profit from selling you groceries? And unlike the grocery store, rolling robots has done a ton of community outreach and taught kids with disabilities and economic barriers the STEM tools they need to be successful.

    You also need to consider the scope of the pneumatic alterations. The pneumatics on their 2017 worlds bot were unaltered according to cut to the bot videos, and 6007 gained no advantage by drilling holes this season. They literally could have taken the standoffs off their lift towers and ziptied the pneumatic tanks in exactly the same place without affecting their robot one bit.

    Last thing: qualifying through robot skills is not a “back door” into worlds. Would you say the 8059 teams qualify to worlds every year through a back door by excelling in skills? 6007 had to fly to Utah because the skills competitions in California were all full, not because they were gaming the system. It’s actually incredible that they were able to put together a skills robot in less than 2 weeks and fly it to Utah to qualify, especially given that FRC season and APs are at their high points right now.

    Bottom line: 6007 unknowingly violated a rule and gained no advantage from doing so. When the RECF overreacted and disqualified them from the entire event, they were able to build a skills robot and fairly qualify to worlds that way. If you have issues with Aeden or Ethan, you should create a private message and try to work it out. But you should not troll the forums.

  8. meng

    Mar 14 Singapore 8059

    @JamesIsAmazing Last thing: qualifying through robot skills is not a “back door” into worlds. Would you say the 8059 teams qualify to worlds every year through a back door by excelling in skills?

    Actually... this is the only door we (including all the small regions) have to qualify for worlds :P

  9. I know, the question was rhetorical. I was saying it’s *not* a back door and that all of your teams qualify legitimately. :)

  10. josh_siegel

    Mar 14 Connecticut 162A

    I really would like to meet the 6007X guys at Worlds. I think this was an honest mistake and should not be penalized with not being allowed to compete at worlds. Their robot is clearly good enough for the world stage. If the drilling pneumatics mounting thing is illegal, than just change the tanks and everyone should be over it!

  11. BottomNotch

    Mar 14 Indianapolis, IN 621

    @truthbomb you seem to be the one witch hunting @meng and everyone else is just trying to explain that who you are hunting is not a witch.

  12. The_Original_Kev

    Mar 14 Calabasas, CA 1437Z

    why some of yall so salty he got into worlds. Chill...

  13. Carter

    Mar 14 Alabama 13907A

    @The_Original_Kev why some of yall so salty he got into worlds. Chill...

    +100. 6007x has been one of the top teams this season.

  14. The_Original_Kev

    Mar 14 Calabasas, CA 1437Z

    @Carter +100. 6007x has been one of the top teams this season.

    100% Agreed lol

  15. bossgivol

    Mar 14 Knoxville TN YNOT

    There is a reason vex has multiple ways to qualify for the world championships. They attempt to do one unjustly and were stopped for it. That is known. Now it is ridiculous to ridicule them for realizing their mistake and attempting to not waste an entire seasons worth of work by qualifying through skills. They did it fair and square. Deal with it

  16. Dromeda

    Mar 14 A place Who needs a number right?

    Wow... talk about extreme hate towards 6007... It's not like they were doing this as an advantage anyways.

  17. Xinghao Li

    Mar 14 RoboSavage 2S
    Edited 3 months ago by Xinghao Li

    So 6007 qualified though skills? how about 62?
    @Ethan_6007X

  18. GBHS VEX Member

    Mar 14 Somewhere in California

    @Xinghao Li So 6007 qualified though skills? how about 62?
    @Ethan_6007X

    Err... 42nd place. Out of the top 35, but close enough where something could happen.

  19. @Xinghao Li So 6007 qualified though skills? how about 62?
    @Ethan_6007X

    62A is at the top of the skills list of unqualified teams in California. There were a few double qualifications, so they should get their worlds invite.

  20. Ashwin_D.

    Mar 14 California 2496J

    @Easton As they say, innocent until proven guilty. Also, the burden of proof falls upon the accuser (you in this case), so if you find actual proof that they did the modification on purpose, let me know.
    Also, I agree with @thedarry that this modification didn't provide a significant advantage to them.

    Agreed

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