Flag Turning (points on flags breaking?)

  1. 6 months ago

    RHarris

    16 May 2018 Eastern Pennsylvania 1267C

    Just a thought about the flags this year -
    When I first put them together I noticed that the flags have a point to indicate their orientation.
    Does anyone think this point will get worn down over the course of the season, possibly making old flags easier to turn than new flags?
    I've included a photo for those who don't have their game elements yet.
    Let me know what you all think.
    IMG_7919.JPG

    So, this is actually something that we were very concerned about during the game design process as well, as robustness and consistency between events is key for a dynamic field element like this. So, we built a test bed out of VEX IQ parts.

    [attachment:5afda8faf3f4c]

    This tester ran for about 3 weeks continuously, stopping only for battery changes, for a total of ~10,000 toggles. The detent and pointer were definitely a bit rounded down at the end of this test, but still functional, and in our testing we have never seen a pointer break or snap off.

    It's tough to estimate how many matches are represented by 10,000 toggles, as it will depend on the competitiveness of teams playing at the event, and this post should not be used as a formal load rating guarantee. But, I would be comfortable in saying that it probably represents at least 15-20 competitive events, probably more.

    That all said, if you do happen to have a very competitive series of events, or start to see excessive wear, each Flag is reversible - there is a pointer at the top and the bottom, and the bracket with the detent has an additional one on the back as well (see attached image for the reversible pointers). This doubles the lifetime of a given Flag/Detent from (my very rough estimate of) 15-20 events to 30-40 events. EP's running multiple events can also rotate their Flag positions during setup to distribute the load more evenly, as the bottom row is likely to see more engagement match-to-match than the top two rows.

  2. Royal_Freedom

    16 May 2018 Washington State 3249Z -- O.O.F.
    Edited 6 months ago by Royal_Freedom

    @RHarris ; a point to indicate their orientation.

    A turning point, would you say? ;)

    Now that I see it, that detent pin looks a lot smaller than I originally thought it was. There is a chance that it could break, but I'm not sure that it will accept enough force to break it; it could be sensitive enough to let it ride over instead of bounce back. Have you tested it? How sensitive is it to turning?

    My only other concern would be recoil from getting hit by a ball. Someone said that the flags tend to bounce back if they are hit too hard. Can you locate what the flag hits when it rebounds?

  3. RHarris

    16 May 2018 Eastern Pennsylvania 1267C

    @Royal_xD I have not been able to thoroughly test it, but I did notice it takes quite a bit of force to push the pin out of the center orientation.
    When flags bounce back they seem to hit the little slope somewhat aggressively.
    The pins are plastic so they seem pretty easy to accidentally break/round down.

  4. Forrest Keller

    17 May 2018 Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam 76209X

    Honestly, I think the best strat for this game would be to focus on the waffles, ensuring your drive base is strong enough for defence and parking. that way, you could stop the other team getting to the flags. The balls seem almost like a distraction.

  5. JamsG

    17 May 2018 a place in southern california 310A
    Edited 6 months ago by JamsG

    @Forrest Keller waffles

  6. Forrest Keller

    17 May 2018 Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam 76209X

    @JamsG Yes. Waffles.

  7. 9065_Parker

    17 May 2018 Platte City Missouri 9065C

    @Forrest Keller Honestly, I think the best strat for this game would be to focus on the waffles, ensuring your drive base is strong enough for defence and parking. that way, you could stop the other team getting to the flags. The balls seem almost like a distraction.

    Please stop. Its going to lead to miscommunication and waffles is unprofessional.

  8. @9065_Parker Please stop. Its going to lead to miscommunication and waffles is unprofessional.

    Hey if they want to say waffles they can say waffles. For that matter anyone who wants to say waffles can say waffles, its just a nickname, its not meant to be professional. And if anyone asks what waffles are, I'm sure we have the communication skills to say that they are our nickname for caps.

  9. Mark Finley

    17 May 2018 Las Vegas, Nevada 6891B - Kep's Boys

    @xRiloKOTBx Hey if they want to say waffles they can say waffles. For that matter anyone who wants to say waffles can say waffles, its just a nickname, its not meant to be professional. And if anyone asks what waffles are, I'm sure we have the communication skills to say that they are our nickname for caps.

    waffles or fidget spinners?

  10. Easton

    17 May 2018 GA, USA 1958A

    @9065_Parker Please stop. Its going to lead to miscommunication and waffles is unprofessional.

    +1

  11. Grant Cox

    17 May 2018 Administrator Answer Greenville, TX
    Edited 6 months ago by Grant Cox

    So, this is actually something that we were very concerned about during the game design process as well, as robustness and consistency between events is key for a dynamic field element like this. So, we built a test bed out of VEX IQ parts.

    Flag Kicker.gif

    This tester ran for about 3 weeks continuously, stopping only for battery changes, for a total of ~10,000 toggles. The detent and pointer were definitely a bit rounded down at the end of this test, but still functional, and in our testing we have never seen a pointer break or snap off.

    It's tough to estimate how many matches are represented by 10,000 toggles, as it will depend on the competitiveness of teams playing at the event, and this post should not be used as a formal load rating guarantee. But, I would be comfortable in saying that it probably represents at least 15-20 competitive events, probably more.

    That all said, if you do happen to have a very competitive series of events, or start to see excessive wear, each Flag is reversible - there is a pointer at the top and the bottom, and the bracket with the detent has an additional one on the back as well (see attached image for the reversible pointers). This doubles the lifetime of a given Flag/Detent from (my very rough estimate of) 15-20 events to 30-40 events. EP's running multiple events can also rotate their Flag positions during setup to distribute the load more evenly, as the bottom row is likely to see more engagement match-to-match than the top two rows.

  12. @Grant Cox So, this is actually something that we were very concerned about during the game design process as well, as robustness and consistency between events is key for a dynamic field element like this. So, we built a test bed out of VEX IQ parts.

    Very cool to see IQ parts used for this! We still have boxes and boxes of them, and we've used them in VRC to test ideas and issues quickly.

  13. dbenderpt

    17 May 2018 Indianapolis, Indiana 6842

    @Grant Cox So, this is actually something that we were very concerned about during the game design process as well, as robustness and consistency between events is key for a dynamic field element like this. So, we built a test bed out of VEX IQ parts.

    [attachment:5afda8faf3f4c]

    This tester ran for about 3 weeks continuously, stopping only for battery changes, for a total of ~10,000 toggles. The detent and pointer were definitely a bit rounded down at the end of this test, but still functional, and in our testing we have never seen a pointer break or snap off.

    It's tough to estimate how many matches are represented by 10,000 toggles, as it will depend on the competitiveness of teams playing at the event, and this post should not be used as a formal load rating guarantee. But, I would be comfortable in saying that it probably represents at least 15-20 competitive events, probably more.

    That all said, if you do happen to have a very competitive series of events, or start to see excessive wear, each Flag is reversible - there is a pointer at the top and the bottom, and the bracket with the detent has an additional one on the back as well (see attached image for the reversible pointers). This doubles the lifetime of a given Flag/Detent from (my very rough estimate of) 15-20 events to 30-40 events. EP's running multiple events can also rotate their Flag positions during setup to distribute the load more evenly, as the bottom row is likely to see more engagement match-to-match than the top two rows.

    That is extremely helpful information. Thanks so much for the all the details. (Plus, I like the IQ robot design).

  14. Royal_Freedom

    17 May 2018 Washington State 3249Z -- O.O.F.

    Wow, @Grant Cox that's really cool. Thank you!

  15. @Mark Finley waffles or fidget spinners?

    Why not both?

  16. @Mark Finley waffles or fidget spinners?

    @xRiloKOTBx Why not both?

  17. Royal_Freedom

    17 May 2018 Washington State 3249Z -- O.O.F.

    @xRiloKOTBx Why not both?

    O O O O O F

  18. RHarris

    17 May 2018 Eastern Pennsylvania 1267C

    @Grant Cox thank you so much for the information!
    I noticed the flags and brackets were reversible when I assembled the field, but wasn't sure why until now.
    IQ test is very interesting and I really appreciate the video.

 

or Sign Up to reply!