1. 3 weeks ago

    meng

    Jun 20 Singapore 8059
    Edited 3 weeks ago by meng

    Before I start on this long post, do allow me to give the context of this post (and also some insights of Singvex).

    1) SingVex 2018 is not an official worlds qualifying event.
    For this season, before we knew about the removing of skills-only events, the major players in Singapore have decided that we will do an unofficial SingVex in June.
    And since it is unofficial, there is no need to register the event with Robotevents, and there is no need for teams to be officially registered with RECF as well. And of course that means a much cheaper registration fees for all teams.

    The main purpose is to hopefully encourage more teams to try out Vex in June. And again, hopefully, we will have more teams who are interested and aiming to try for a spot for worlds in the official worlds-qualifying event towards the later part of the year and skills challenge events early next year (that was before the new ruling came about).

    2) Since it is not an official event, there will be no worlds spots given out during this competition. Just bragging rights.

    3) Since no results will be uploaded into Robotevents or VexDB, everything will be based on my (quite) faulty memory. And with limited "official" data or info on hand, I have decided to make this post with the focus on 8059 in SingVex and maybe a bit of stuff about SingVex. I will leave it to other teams (if they are interested) to make their own posts concerning their own teams.

    A bit about SingVex and my personal take on Turning Point:

    1. More schools have dropped out this year, but the number of teams remained about the same as previous - 54 teams.
    2. 8065/8066 are back (and still amazing)!!
    3. No Excellence Award given out - since it is not official

    From memory:

    1. Highest match score by an alliance (by 8065/8066) - 34 points
    2. Robot Skills performance:

    First - 8066B (I think) - 30 points (total of driver and programming skills)
    Second - 8068A - 28 points
    Third - 8059D (I am very sure this time round :P ) - 25 points

    6) Highest autonomous routine score by a single robot - 7 points (by 8059A)

    7) Types of robots - Almost all teams can descore caps from posts and flipped it on the floor. There were about 1/3 of the teams that had a reliable shooters to hit the flags.

    For the shooters, mainly linear punchers, with 8059X having a catapult and 8059A and Z having a 2-ball catapult, and a team from 8076 using a single flywheel.

    8) The spectators' view was once again awful. Similar to nbn, because of the possibility of balls flying out, the organiser had not much choice other than to put the net-side of the field away from the spectators, the teams lining both sides of the field, and the officials standing at the last available side of the field (with the back facing the spectators). Hence, once again it was difficult to get any good video footages or pics from the matches.

    9) Quite a few accidental DQs or disabled robots here and there. There were a few cases of robots getting stuck or got caught at the net and had to be disabled. And there were a few occasions that robots were still touching the opponents' alliance platform at the end of the match and were DQs.

    10) I like this year game, simply because there are just so many ways to play it and win it. Hopefully this will mean lesser design convergence. I still believe that by worlds, the fight for centre platform will resemble more like battlebots than a normal Vex game.

    Now about 8059 in SingVex:

    10 teams this year.... with 5 teams considered as our junior teams (mainly 12 - 13 year-old kids).

    The brief for these junior teams was simple - quick descorer and effective flipping of the caps on the floor, and then centre-parked.
    When playing against teams that were focusing on caps, all these quick descorers were actually pretty effective and quite a pain to play against.

    As for our other teams, they can practically do everything - flags, caps, parking, etc.
    But the basic approach to the game is - win autonomous, hit flags, then caps, and prevent opponent from centre-parked.

    How did our team do this time round? Pretty well... considering with such high level of performance from other teams.
    8059A was the only team undefeated at the end of qualifying - 9-0-0.
    And with 8059Z at 2nd rank with 8-0-1.
    They were pushed and followed closely behind by 8066B with 8-1-0 and a few others 8065/8066 teams (showcasing their strength in depth).

    This year, as mentioned, 8065/8066 are back in the fold. And as usual, any matches against them are intense and extremely competitive.

    The teachers in-charge for 8065/8066 and 8068 have given their clearance for me to upload the videos of the SF and F.

    The SF match was between 8059A/8059B and 8066A/8066D.
    Score for this match was 20-11.

    Final was between 8059A/8059B and 8066B/8066C.
    8059A/B narrowly squeezed past 8066B/C with a score of 21-17.

    There were many other matches that were simply too close to call, eg. the SF between 8066B/8066C and 8059Z/8068E was so close... with 8066B/C winning with a score of 15-13.
    But sadly... like i said, too difficult to get any recording done.

    And lastly... 8059 will be doing our reveals very soon.

    #MaybeLastSingVex

    Edit: Updated the correct team for 2nd in Skills Challenge

  2. siukongsit

    Jun 20 Event Partner 2496
    Edited 3 weeks ago by siukongsit

    Can you elaborate on how touching the opposing alliance's platform at the end of a match constitutes a DQ? I don't see which rule that would violate. From what I've read, it just seems that you would lose your center parking bonus as you are touching the opposing alliance platform

  3. meng

    Jun 20 Singapore 8059

    @siukongsit Can you elaborate on how touching the opposing alliance's platform at the end of a match constitutes a DQ? I don't see which rule that would violate. From what I've read, it just seems that you would lose your center parking bonus as you are touching the opposing alliance platform

    It is an interpretation of and "extension" of the definition of alliance platform - whereby it can only be used by the alliance of the same color for parking. The key word here is - only.
    Hence the referees interpreted it as anything else at the end of the match (apart from parking) will be illegal.

    Anyway, i had one match whereby i had 2 teams DQ for that. Lol.

  4. Tring

    Jun 20 Singapore 8068
    Edited 3 weeks ago by Tring

    SingVex this year was definitely a really good competition, with so much action going on especially in the eliminations. 8068 has definitely learnt lots from 8059 from these few days and we are definitely inspired by the robot designs of your teams.

    I would also like to take the opportunity to thank @meng for the great opportunities that 8068 has had to work with 8059 for the past few seasons. It has truly been an amazing experience, being able to work with one of the best teams in the world.

    On a side note, I just wanted to mention that it was actually 8068A that had gotten 2nd in the overall skills challenge rankings.

    @meng Second - 8068E (I think.. again) - 28 points

    On another note, we managed to get a few videos on some of the elimination matches that you may not have been able to get, and we have uploaded them at: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrVbGpTVQ15qkGV1wU4h1bge6jNu8EhFm (Apologies in advance for the bad quality on the some of the videos)

    See you guys the next time we meet for a scrimmage! :)

  5. meng

    Jun 20 Singapore 8059

    @Tring On another note, we managed to get a few videos on some of the elimination matches that you may not have been able to get, and we have uploaded them at: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrVbGpTVQ15qkGV1wU4h1bge6jNu8EhFm (Apologies in advance for the bad quality on the some of the videos)

    Sorry about QF2.
    Still think 8059D complements 8068A very well.... if only 8059D didn't tip over early in the match, it will be a much stiffer fight.

  6. TriDragon

    Jun 20 Tampa, FL 6430 - Mentor

    @meng is that one robot in the finals actually designed to flip two flags with one shot? Because thats pretty nice :)

  7. meng

    Jun 20 Singapore 8059

    @TriDragon @meng is that one robot in the finals actually designed to flip two flags with one shot? Because thats pretty nice :)

    Yup. Thats our 2-ball catapult. It is to hit both the top and middle flags at the same time.

  8. lacsap

    Jun 20 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Massachusetts 9791[a-z]

    @meng It is an interpretation of and "extension" of the definition of alliance platform - whereby it can only be used by the alliance of the same color for parking. The key word here is - only.
    Hence the referees interpreted it as anything else at the end of the match (apart from parking) will be illegal.

    It appears to be an incorrect interpretation. The wording only means that you won't get points for parking on the opposing color platform. No where is it an infraction worthy of DQ. The only clause is in autonomous where you can not cross the auton line and the opposing alliance platform is on the wrong side.

    Please post this to the official Q&A.

  9. meng

    Jun 20 Singapore 8059
    Edited 3 weeks ago by meng

    @lacsap It appears to be an incorrect interpretation. The wording only means that you won't get points for parking on the opposing color platform. No where is it an infraction worthy of DQ. The only clause is in autonomous where you can not cross the auton line and the opposing alliance platform is on the wrong side.

    Please post this to the official Q&A.

    Well... I am in agreement with you about this. Think it is a case of being too extreme in their interpretation.
    But to be fair to the referees, it is very early in the season, and the q&a is not as accessible as before.

    But the referees did brought up a good point as well - how would it be ruled if the blue robot parked on top of the red alliance platform at the end of the match?
    I don’t think this will be allowed.
    So they extrapolate this reasoning to the point of not allowing opponent to place anything on TOP of the opponents’ alliance platform at the end of the match.

    One of my teams (8059x) got DQ because part of their stand-off intake was resting on TOP of the opponent platform at the end of the match.... and to make it worse, the opponents were not even trying to climb via the platform. Harsh? Definitely.
    But as I said - we need to be fair to the referees.... it is too early in the season.

  10. meng

    Jun 20 Singapore 8059

    And please ask any questions regarding the robots or the game play.
    I will try my best to answer :)

  11. Thanks for the SingVex overview, Singapore teams look to be setting the standard early in the season again, matches look fantastic!

  12. Baguette123

    Jun 20 Earth 2775J

    How many motors does (8059A I think) use on their double catapult and ball intake?

  13. lacsap

    Jun 20 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Massachusetts 9791[a-z]

    @meng But the referees did brought up a good point as well - how would it be ruled if the blue robot parked on top of the red alliance platform at the end of the match?
    I don’t think this will be allowed.
    So they extrapolate this reasoning to the point of not allowing opponent to place anything on TOP of the opponents’ alliance platform at the end of the match.

    There is nothing in the rules preventing from going up on an opposing alliance platform. I would not support making up rules.

    Please post on the official Q&A - no reason not to.

  14. tabor473

    Jun 20 V5 Beta Tester OYES, WPI

    @lacsap Please post on the official Q&A - no reason not to.

    It is a lot harder to post in the Q&A now. You can feel free to post a question if you would like.

  15. Gear Geeks

    Jun 20 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Virginia, USA 8044

    @tabor473 It is a lot harder to post in the Q&A now. You can feel free to post a question if you would like.

    Each team should at least have one person (or two or three) able to post questions on the Q&A. I guess I'm not understanding the problem. Just find out who the POCs listed on your account are and have that person post questions. It actually isn't that hard - I posted a question on the Q&A.

  16. Carter

    Jun 20 Alabama 13907A

    What was the reasoning with the bot that had the intake for both balls and caps integrated into one mechanism? I does save a bit of space, but a passive intake with a cap flipper and a ball intake + indexer would have been another motor. It doesn't make much since to me why you would make this type of intake instead of having intakes more specialized in each element of the game. Also I'd like to add that this is just constructive criticism and all of these bots are certainly better than my nonexistent one.

  17. tabor473

    Jun 20 V5 Beta Tester OYES, WPI
    Edited 3 weeks ago by tabor473

    @Gear Geeks Each team should at least have one person (or two or three) able to post questions on the Q&A. I guess I'm not understanding the problem. Just find out who the POCs listed on your account are and have that person post questions. It actually isn't that hard - I posted a question on the Q&A.

    I don't speak for 8059, but a lot of teams I know have not registered their team for the season yet. This SingVex event was unofficial so they would have had no reason to register.

  18. meng

    Jun 20 Singapore 8059

    @tabor473 I don't speak for 8059, but a lot of teams I know have not registered their team for the season yet. This SingVex event was unofficial so they would have had no reason to register.

    Yup. You are right. None of the Singapore teams are officially registered yet.
    So I really couldn’t post any questions.
    And even our Singapore rep/EP have problem logging into the q&a forum.

    But really, I don’t intend to make this thread into a discussions of rulings.
    Let’s enjoy the robots and the matches and discuss about them instead :)

  19. meng

    Jun 20 Singapore 8059

    @Jonathan Thanks for the SingVex overview, Singapore teams look to be setting the standard early in the season again, matches look fantastic!

    Thanks! And I think some of the robots designs should be able to last till at least mid-season :)

  20. meng

    Jun 20 Singapore 8059

    @Baguette123 How many motors does (8059A I think) use on their double catapult and ball intake?

    My kids will need to verify this... but I believe it is 1 motor for the ball intake and 2 motors for the 2-ball catapult.

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