Brand New Flags Harder to Turn!

  1. 4 months ago

    dannybedro

    Aug 4 Los Angeles, California 448X

    There seems to be an issue with turning brand new flags like seen from the Benton County Fair tournament going on right now. I think this could be a serious issue going forward especially when teams begin to practice more and more on the same field and then reach worlds or states where the flags are brand new.

    The robot is at the top left of the screen and hits the top flag using a puncher during auto.

    Any thoughts?

  2. Ryan_26982E

    Aug 4 Boerne, Texas 26982E

    Maybe an issue with the humidity there? Hopefully VEX can address this issue.

  3. lacsap

    Aug 4 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Massachusetts 9791[a-z]

    Toggling flags requires a lot of force. Without having the robot in front of me, it is hard to debug what we are seeing here: flag sticking (unlikely) or weak robot (likely).

    When designing robots - you should assume events will have stiff toggles. If your flags are worn, you can reverse the indent (yes VEX designed for wearing of flags during the course of the season).

    Early season we are likely to see robots fail to toggle flags until designs are tuned.

  4. Baguette123

    Aug 4 Earth 2775J

    It looked to me like the ball hit way too close to the pole on the flag. I don't know if that's the case, but just my 2 cents.

  5. Hi!

    So it looks like you're shooting a laser shot right at the flags, which definitely has enough force to turn them.

    However, the shot is angled at a steep angle up, which means only a fraction of the velocity of the ball- the horizontal component- is actually being used to turn the flags.

    Also, the shot hits the very inside part of the flag in the video you linked, which gives you a lot less leverage. If you aim at the outer edge and straighten out the shot angle, that should help turn the flags much more easily. This will become a lot easier with v5 vision sensors once they're out.

    I know vex said they did some pretty extensive testing on the detents wearing out, it sounds like the flags don't lose or gain much stiffness even when they're turned back and forth thousands of times. However, there's definitely some variation between different flags just because of manufacturing tolerances etc. Is it possible your practice field flags were just easier to turn?

    If you get a chance before your next competition, try to level out your shot angle and aim for the outer edge of the flags. Good luck!

  6. dannybedro

    Aug 5 Los Angeles, California 448X
    Edited 4 months ago by dannybedro

    @Anomaly Hi!

    So it looks like you're shooting a laser shot right at the flags, which definitely has enough force to turn them.

    However, the shot is angled at a steep angle up, which means only a fraction of the velocity of the ball- the horizontal component- is actually being used to turn the flags.

    Also, the shot hits the very inside part of the flag in the video you linked, which gives you a lot less leverage. If you aim at the outer edge and straighten out the shot angle, that should help turn the flags much more easily. This will become a lot easier with v5 vision sensors once they're out.

    I know vex said they did some pretty extensive testing on the detents wearing out, it sounds like the flags don't lose or gain much stiffness even when they're turned back and forth thousands of times. However, there's definitely some variation between different flags just because of manufacturing tolerances etc. Is it possible your practice field flags were just easier to turn?

    If you get a chance before your next competition, try to level out your shot angle and aim for the outer edge of the flags. Good luck!

    There might have been some confusion but this is not my robot, just saw this on a stream of an event that took place today.
    But as far as my team has noticed that after a lot of turning back and forth our flags look a lot easier to turn and we are worried about that happening to all teams and therefore resulting in issues at competition.

  7. dannybedro

    Aug 5 Los Angeles, California 448X

    @lacsap If your flags are worn, you can reverse the indent (yes VEX designed for wearing of flags during the course of the season).

    This is a great tip I didn't know about, Thanks

  8. Ethan_98377f

    Aug 5 Minnesota 98377f

    I dunno if its just me but i feel like its almost better to hit in the red or blue and not the green part of the flag as the polycarb bends more when you hit the green.

  9. lacsap

    Aug 5 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Massachusetts 9791[a-z]

    @Ethan_98377f I dunno if its just me but i feel like its almost better to hit in the red or blue and not the green part of the flag as the polycarb bends more when you hit the green.

    Correct, we noticed that hitting the flags on the outer edge caused them to bend and deflect the ball rather than toggle. No extensive testing - but observations during summer session.

 

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