Painting Beta equipment.

  1. last week

    TheColdedge

    Oct 5 Columbus, Indiana 1483

    I know beta equipment isn't legal, but is there a way to tell if the parts are from the beta if it gets a paint job?

    It seem like a really easy work around, esp since it's pretty common for teams to do this already.

  2. Bob132

    Oct 5 3018V

    With the exception of motors, I belive the V5 beta hardware is physically stamped with "BETA UNIT" on it.
    VRC Turning Point Referee Training Chapter 10: The V5 Control System

  3. Gear Geeks

    Oct 5 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Virginia, USA 8044

    A team that does that should be banned for the season. That would not be an accident but an intentional attempt to get around very clear rules and agreements. I am going though and putting big "BETA" stickers on all equipment so that when the "real" V5s come my team won't have mix ups. Sometimes i wake up at night having a nightmare that a piece of beta hardware ends up on our robot during s tournament.

  4. lacsap

    Oct 5 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Massachusetts 9791[a-z]

    A fair amount of beta equipment is literally heat branded ... melted plastic ...

    I am not worried about not detecting V5 beta equipment at inspection time.

  5. TheColdedge

    Oct 5 Columbus, Indiana 1483

    The motors don't look any different other than color.

    I know in my industry prototype parts often don't have texture. I didn't know if that's the case here.

  6. lacsap

    Oct 5 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Massachusetts 9791[a-z]

    @TheColdedge The motors don't look any different other than color.

    I know in my industry prototype parts often don't have texture. I didn't know if that's the case here.

    not sure that is true, waiting for delivery of production V5 motors - then I can say definitively the differences. I heard that the casing did change a bit.

  7. Avery_8675A

    Oct 5 Valley, NE XD

    @lacsap not sure that is true, waiting for delivery of production V5 motors - then I can say definitively the differences. I heard that the casing did change a bit.

    This is correct, I have a beta motor and have production V5. The only difference is the color.

  8. jpearman

    Oct 5 Moderator, ROBOTC Tech Support, V5 Beta Moderator Los Angeles 8888

    @Avery_8675A This is correct, I have a beta motor and have production V5. The only difference is the color.

    Look closely, there are other differences (at least there are in the ones I have).

  9. Avery_8675A

    Oct 5 Valley, NE XD
    Edited last week by Avery_8675A

    The text color is also different and there is a part number. Also the cartridge that comes standard changed from 100 to 200. But if someone was dedicated enough they could print stickers of the red text and part number to make a beta a production copy.

  10. calvc01

    Oct 5 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Colchester, United Kingdom

    Have a look at the mounting lugs.

  11. @TheColdedge The motors don't look any different other than color.

    I know in my industry prototype parts often don't have texture. I didn't know if that's the case here.

    The "vents" in the production motors are deeper than the beta motors. The beta motors also have "Beta Unit" heat stamped into them.

  12. TheColdedge

    Oct 5 Columbus, Indiana 1483

    @Mystical Pie The beta motors also have "Beta Unit" heat stamped into them.

    this is contrary to what everyone's said above.

    I'd also like to say, some epoxy and sand paper would make that heat stamp go away under a coat of paint
    fairly efficiently.

    it may not become a problem this season, but in a couple years when we aren't looking for it as closely and custom paint won't be as unique this would be easy to pull off.

  13. terminalvelocity

    Oct 6 Bloomfield Hills, Michigan 39X Terminal Velocity (formerl...

    @TheColdedge it may not become a problem this season, but in a couple years when we aren't looking for it as closely and custom paint won't be as unique this would be easy to pull off.

    Would it really? I mean, at that point, VEX will have successfully released this system into the mainstream. I doubt any teams would find an advantage in using old beta motors. I could be wrong though...

  14. Xenon

    Oct 6 long beach 99999V

    @terminalvelocity Would it really? I mean, at that point, VEX will have successfully released this system into the mainstream. I doubt any teams would find an advantage in using old beta motors. I could be wrong though...

    yes, what advantage would using beta motors provide? and would it really be significant enough to go through all that effort to conceal?

  15. tabor473

    Oct 6 V5 Beta Tester OYES, WPI

    @Xenon yes, what advantage would using beta motors provide? and would it really be significant enough to go through all that effort to conceal?

    Ya they are either identical or slightly worse. (there was a bug in the battery they fixed in production) It would be a lot of effort to go to and the only real benefit would be that the Beta hardware is free.

  16. Gear Geeks

    Oct 6 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Virginia, USA 8044

    @tabor473 Ya they are either identical or slightly worse. (there was a bug in the battery they fixed in production) It would be a lot of effort to go to and the only real benefit would be that the Beta hardware is free.

    This is my thought. Minimal to no benefit while sacrificing integrity. A lose-lose situation. There are no magical unicorns in the beta test equipment!

  17. Xenon

    Oct 6 long beach 99999V

    on a side note, I think the beta-testing parts just look better than the real ones.

  18. Edited last week by Anomaly

    @Gear Geeks A team that does that should be banned for the season. That would not be an accident but an intentional attempt to get around very clear rules and agreements. I am going though and putting big "BETA" stickers on all equipment so that when the "real" V5s come my team won't have mix ups. Sometimes i wake up at night having a nightmare that a piece of beta hardware ends up on our robot during s tournament.

    Ehhh I don't know about that one. Should a team that intentionally uses 3d printed wire clips and bearing flats that are functionally identical be banned for the season? What about a team that uses beta internal motor gears?

    I understand where you're coming from, but teams don't really gain a competitive advantage by using v5 beta products. You're cheating Vex, not your opponents.

    And on top of that, very few teams have beta hardware, there's an inherent risk to this strategy with potentially very serious consequences, most teams wouldn't be comfortable doing it for ethical reasons if nothing else, and we're talking about $140 you're saving on motors, not factoring in the cost of paint or time spent painting. At the end of the day, maybe some team somewhere will paint their beta motors, maybe they'll even get away with it, but I don't see it as a huge issue.

    P.S. WHOA I'm not the only one that dreams about vex :D

  19. Gear Geeks

    Oct 6 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Virginia, USA 8044

    @Anomaly Ehhh I don't know about that one. Should a team that intentionally uses 3d printed wire clips and bearing flats that are functionally identical be banned for the season? What about a team that uses beta internal motor gears?

    I understand where you're coming from, but teams don't really gain a competitive advantage by using v5 beta products. You're cheating Vex, not your opponents.

    And on top of that, very few teams have beta hardware, there's an inherent risk to this strategy with potentially very serious consequences, most teams wouldn't be comfortable doing it for ethical reasons if nothing else, and we're talking about $140 you're saving on motors, not factoring in the cost of paint or time spent painting. At the end of the day, maybe some team somewhere will paint their beta motors, maybe they'll even get away with it, but I don't see it as a huge issue.

    P.S. WHOA I'm not the only one that dreams about vex :D

    I was addressing only beta units. I signed a legal document saying I would not use it in competition. I take legal documents pretty seriously. That being said, i don't believe that anyone signs a legal document stating they won't use 3D printed parts. So, not really analogous at all.

  20. OscarMNOVA12

    Oct 7 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Northern VA and Pittsburgh MASON, 12, 22172

    beta internal motor gears?

    I thought I read somewhere those were fine, and that they're not gonna expect or force inspectors to check that those aren't beta.

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