Easily Descoring Caps

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Edited 3 weeks ago by johnsonandjohnson

    Is anyone else scared that placing caps on the poles won't be a part of the game at higher levels? I think that no matter the design it is much faster to descore them off the posts than it is to score them, making it a waste of time. At this rate, the aspect of the game will be completely ignored at worlds, kinda like hanging in SS.

    Any thoughts?

  2. meng

    Nov 21 Singapore 8059

    Hanging was not ignored at worlds.

    At the high level games, every point matters.
    In fact i do expect to see more robots capping on the posts later in the season.

  3. @meng Hanging was not ignored at worlds.

    At the high level games, every point matters.
    In fact i do expect to see more robots capping on the posts later in the season.

    +1
    The best cap robot I've seen so far would probably be TVAConnor's. He's got a very quick method that rivals the speed of most descorers. I expect his design to be modified and improved upon, and more and more really good cap bots to crop up.

  4. dsibal

    Nov 21 Fairfax, VA 2727A

    @Got a Screw Loose +1
    The best cap robot I've seen so far would probably be TVAConnor's. He's got a very quick method that rivals the speed of most descorers. I expect his design to be modified and improved upon, and more and more really good cap bots to crop up.

    True...I’ve seen recent photos of his robot and it looks like he’s now using a pneumatic intake which is probably better than his passive one...if a really quick flag robot and cap robot are allianced they’ll probably be unstoppable

  5. I think it takes a very good cap bot to be worth it. In theory a great cap bot and a great flag bot is the best pairing. However we have lost in both the finals and semi finals against two flag bots. If you loose the flags you’re only way to win is if you have auton and the center platform. Those three variables seem to be the most important with caps acting as icing on the cake.

  6. Xenon

    Nov 21 Long Beach, California 99999V

    @Hagan_60883A I think it takes a very good cap bot to be worth it. In theory a great cap bot and a great flag bot is the best pairing. However we have lost in both the finals and semi finals against two flag bots. If you loose the flags you’re only way to win is if you have auton and the center platform. Those three variables seem to be the most important with caps acting as icing on the cake.

    agreed.
    It just is so much faster to knock off caps than it is to score them, and caps in general are flipped back and forth more than flags. If you manage to toggle a high flag, it won't necessarily be toggled back, as it's a lot harder to hit them, but if you flip a cap, you'll have to flip it several times in a match to keep it your color.

  7. I'm not sure there will be much convincing of this issue at this point. Seeing how quickly robots could cap posts swayed me, and I'm pretty unmoving on my stance.
    Still, it's an interesting discussion topic. Cap bots are just one of those things that will be debated over.

  8. Xenon

    Nov 21 Long Beach, California 99999V

    at all of my comps this year, not one of the winners could actually score caps on posts. sometimes, the winners couldn't even flip floor caps. I think I've got a good shot this time around, with a double catapult and a cap flipper. plan to put on a cap knocker-offer.

  9. @Xenon at all of my comps this year, not one of the winners could actually score caps on posts. sometimes, the winners couldn't even flip floor caps. I think I've got a good shot this time around, with a double catapult and a cap flipper. plan to put on a cap knocker-offer.

    Not surprising. Except that none of them could use the 448X style of reverse intake roller.

  10. Xenon

    Nov 21 Long Beach, California 99999V

    @Got a Screw Loose Not surprising. Except that none of them could use the 448X style of reverse intake roller.

    aha true, the robots in my region are good, but not super super good yet.

  11. here’s where I think you can see the value of flags over caps. If you have two highly skilled flag bots (say without descroring arms) against two highly skilled cap bots (say they have no way to hit high flags) victory is almost guaranteed to the flag team. Flag bots can win auton much more easily and overall flag points are higher. Center parking is the only chance for the cap team. Whichever team wins the flags typically wins in my book.

    Ideally a match between one of each should be unstoppable but I’ve yet to see such a good pair yet.

  12. @Hagan_60883A here’s where I think you can see the value of flags over caps. If you have two highly skilled flag bots (say without descroring arms) against two highly skilled cap bots (say they have no way to hit high flags) victory is almost guaranteed to the flag team. Flag bots can win auton much more easily and overall flag points are higher. Center parking is the only chance for the cap team. Whichever team wins the flags typically wins in my book.

    Ideally a match between one of each should be unstoppable but I’ve yet to see such a good pair yet.

    Here we go! This has been discussed before, so let's try not to reiterate said points. :)

    Yes, it is up to Auton and center park. But cap bots can easily get low flags. Let's say they can score the maximum of 6 caps on posts, rendering them inaccessible to the flag bots. And let's say the flag bots score all high flags. Those are 12 points per team. Two caps are left on the ground and three flags are low.
    That's five potential points. For the sake of the argument, let's say flag bots get three low flags and cap bots get two low caps. Flag bots are ahead by one point.
    Assuming no defense of scored objects, the cap bots will have more time to center park. Let's say they successfully do so. And alliance park by the same logic.
    After the flags alliance park, they'll be down by three points. Let's factor in autonomous, which is worth 4 points. Enough to decide a match.
    Flag bots have now oppritunity to score points, but cap bots can get a wide swing. I don't want to type out all of my logic, but assuming perfect runs, the center bottom flag would be huge.

    Long story short, yes; flags would win. But that's in a perfect world. Without defense of any kind on either party.
    Descoring, which would take valuable points from flag bots, could be easily rivaled by fast lifts. So it's negligible. High flags can't be descored without a shooter. Fine.

    So, yes. Flags, point wise, would win. But that's assuming a perfect performance. You don't really miss shots when capping posts. Flags have an advantage, but it's really a pretty even split.

  13. Sorry for reiterating I’m just getting into the forums here.

    I like your analysis but I slightly disagree with your conclusion. I’d say yes they’re very close with a slight advantage to flags, especially in the case of perfect runs like you described. However I would argue that the requirements to be a good flag bot, and requirements to be a good cap bot are actually quite different. One can be simply mediocre at scoring flags and still be quite effective. Meanwhile it takes a very sophisticated lift and intake to score caps at a rate they would be descored at.

    By high level competitions late in the year I’m sure the best alliances will have a robot that specializes in each, however for the time being I think finding a capbot equal to a high caliber flag bot is just a rare sight indeed. I’ve only seen maybe one or two at competitions and neither has proven themselves to win in eliminations.

  14. last week

    reflxshn

    Dec 6 2019F
    Edited last week by reflxshn

    Our team (flag bot with high cap de-scorer) played several cap only teams at our last competition. We turn 2-4 flags in auton leaving at most two high flags (your opponent 's flags start scored for you already). Those matches were two shots then play defense.

  15. Edited last week by Dave Macaroni

    A cap bot does have a disadvantage against a shooter for the reasons you stated, but a flag bot allianced with a cap bot is very hard to beat.
    Due to this fact a cap bots strategy relies heavily on scouting.

  16. trontech569

    Dec 6 CA, USA

    It only matters what type of bot you have if you are facing bots with the same system as you. Going up against V5 with a Cortex is going to lead to elimination 90% of the time for the Cortex.

  17. CleansweepmanJr

    Dec 6 Hidden where no one can steal ...

    Blank just wants u scoring caps watch out

  18. I do agree with that the V5 will most likely win, however it's not impossible to win with cortex you just have to use your motors wisely.
    Also don't get in a pushing watch with a V5 just get in their way

  19. trontech569

    Dec 6 CA, USA

    Yeah Cortex can and has sometimes won.

  20. abennett5139

    Dec 7 Concord, NC 5139

    One of our teams has a cap only bot and was scoring caps much faster than a descorer so I feel like in higher level of play caps will be worth it they just have to be done efficiently.

  21. Newer ›
 

or Sign Up to reply!