Live Scoring This Season

  1. 3 weeks ago

    Just wanted to hear people's thoughts on whether live scoring would be feasible/practical/useful this season. I would think so, but wanted to hear other people's opinions.

  2. Mark Finley

    Nov 25 Las Vegas, Nevada 6891B - Kep's Boys

    A lot of events post scores and rankings and stuff on the VEX via app.

    You also can bookmarks teams and stuff, so I can still see the match scores my team got at state last year and who won what awards.

  3. Oh, no I meant live scoring as in in-match scoring, where you see approximate scores for red and blue on the screen.

  4. Mark Finley

    Nov 25 Las Vegas, Nevada 6891B - Kep's Boys

    @kmindspark Oh, no I meant live scoring as in in-match scoring, where you see approximate scores for red and blue on the screen.

    That would be cool but only really big events could do it probably because that would be really hard (especially in a back and forth game like this one). If every game piece had a sensor in it then it could all be automated, or if someone wrote a program to analyze an overhead camera, but that would be really hard I think.
    Also if the displayed score was wrong and then you lost "because" of it that could cause problems.

  5. Live scoring should never be used by the teams to make driving decisions, agreed. But it's a nice feature to have I think, especially for an audience to follow the game.

  6. Mark Finley

    Nov 25 Las Vegas, Nevada 6891B - Kep's Boys

    @kmindspark Live scoring should never be used by the teams to make driving decisions, agreed. But it's a nice feature to have I think, especially for an audience to follow the game.

    Agreed it would be really nice for audiences.
    I wonder if the new color sensor is good enough that if you positioned one above the field and one pointing at the flags if you could program them to calculate the score.

  7. FRC competitions have massive field elements with space to have built in sensors. FRC can afford to do this. Agreed, it is really cool. It is also really expensive.

    VEX competitions for the most part are lacking in volunteers to account for every game piece. Therefore, it's not feasible. Adding technology to assume this task would also be very difficult, as stated. It would be like the Vision Sensors with V5, most likely. And it would be finicky at best.

    So, it would be very cool, alas not really possible. With the game designs I've seen, it all seems very mechanical and less technological, making it more difficult to add somewhat accurate sensors.

    As for live scoring, I kind of have the rest of my Drive team eyeball the field every once in a while to see if I need to head more for defense or offense. We generally have four hand states: easily winning; close game, but winning; close game, but losing; easily losing. It actually works out pretty well. I don't rely on it too much except for a halfway mark or something.

  8. Barin

    Nov 25 Arizona

    @Mark Finley Live scoring is an inbuilt feature of Tournament Manager. Tournament staff with wireless tablets can score matches live and have the scores instantly tallied and displayed as part of Tournament Manager's aptly-named "Audience Display".

    Tournaments that use tablet scoring, let alone live scoring, generally are planned well enough that competitors are frequently reminded that live scoring does not constitute an official score. Worlds is a good example.

    @nallen01 made his own such software before TM had it, but his software seems to be dead now.

  9. M8R

    Nov 25 Los Angeles, California TP 2150A/ITZ 7700S

    I've been trying to live score by myself via the app. It's sort of hard and takes most of the focus of whoever is doing it but they can still take that scoring data and give suggestions to coach who will make decisions for the driver.

  10. nallen01

    Nov 25 V5 Beta Tester Auckland, New Zealand AURA

    @Barin @nallen01 made his own such software before TM had it, but his software seems to be dead now.

    It's not dead :) I only update it around February each year for our Nationals so it won't have been updated to support this season yet. Also I just noticed I never merged my work for ITZ back into master (it's in a branch called "in-the-zone".

    The reason why we use our own is that I feel it can provide a better experience. We include a graph, etc. I don't know if it's changed but the TM Mobile interface for live scoring used to be really clunky...
    Plus, it lets me automatically update awesome match statistics: https://vexdb.io/extras/focs

  11. Barin

    Nov 25 Arizona

    @nallen01 It's not dead :) I only update it around February each year for our Nationals so it won't have been updated to support this season yet. Also I just noticed I never merged my work for ITZ back into master (it's in a branch called "in-the-zone".

    The reason why we use our own is that I feel it can provide a better experience. We include a graph, etc. I don't know if it's changed but the TM Mobile interface for live scoring used to be really clunky...
    Plus, it lets me automatically update awesome match statistics: https://vexdb.io/extras/focs

    TM's interface was still clunky last time I checked; I preferred yours when I tried it in Starstruck. I also should have checked branches; I just assumed it was never updated because the last commit to master was for Starstruck...

  12. The TM interface as of now is usable enough I think, perhaps they've updated it. I haven't ever used the one that @nallen01 made though.

  13. Barin

    Nov 25 Arizona
    Edited 3 weeks ago by Barin

    @M8R I've been trying to live score by myself via the app. It's sort of hard and takes most of the focus of whoever is doing it but they can still take that scoring data and give suggestions to coach who will make decisions for the driver.

    The live scoring that is the subject of this thread refers to official, event-wide live scoring, by tournament staff/volunteers. Multiple people would be involved in doing the live scoring, as the task would be virtually impossible for a single individual.

    The only data available to competitors would be a single total score for each alliance.

  14. Bhargav S.

    Nov 25 Maryland 952C

    I feel like they did it last year for ITZ at Worlds and other major tournaments, but a major factor is if there is a possibility for descoring. With this year's game, its like SS in the way that points are scored back and forth, which makes it really hard to keep live scoring. So, I don't think it will be very possible this year.

  15. I don't think it would be that hard to just have one person monitor the flags and one person monitor the caps for live scoring.

  16. @kmindspark I don't think it would be that hard to just have one person monitor the flags and one person monitor the caps for live scoring.

    I think it would be. They would have to keep track of four robots potentially all doing the same thing. Sure, it may not be hard to watch and understand it, but actually submitting the data for live scoring software would take up enough time that the activity they just recorded could have been reversed.
    Not impossible, but very difficult.

  17. I don't think it would be that hard — what do you mean by submitting?

  18. Edited 3 weeks ago by Got a Screw Loose

    @kmindspark I don't think it would be that hard — what do you mean by submitting?

    Have you tried reffing a full match with live scoring? Maybe I'm overestimating the chaos that would ensue when trying to keep track of every game object's orientation.
    By submitting, I mean recording somehow to instantly feed into a display of some sort.

  19. So just to get everyone on the same page: You can download an app, VEX TM Mobile, that you can then hook up to a web server that you can start from Tournament Manager. You can then use your device to live score during the matches by hitting some buttons to increment/decrement scoring objects, it's actually quite easy.

    My main thoughts in making the original post were just to gather opinions on whether it would be good from an audience POV.

  20. It would be great for the audience, and if you think it's easier than I'm anticipating then it's a great idea. But you'd need the extra volunteers.

    I'm not familiar with the app, so maybe it's easier than I'm thinking it is.

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