Alliance Selection New Rule Question Turning Point

  1. last week

    areitzig

    Dec 6 Event Partner

    If there is an odd number of teams going into elimination, is the last team eliminated or is there an alliance of 1?

  2. 7517j

    Dec 6 Pillow on my bed(Malvern PA) 7517J

    i don't know for sure, but i would guess that they get a by.

  3. areitzig

    Dec 6 Event Partner

    But would there be a one-team alliance or would they be eliminated???

  4. Deleted last week by 7517j
  5. There cannot be a one team alliance. The last unpicked team would not get to play.

  6. areitzig

    Dec 6 Event Partner

    Thank you, which rule governs that?

  7. sazrocks

    Dec 6 Arizona 2114V
    Edited last week by sazrocks

    From the Tournament section of the manual:

    The Alliance Selection process will consist of one round of selection, such that eight (8) to
    sixteen (16) Alliance Captains will form elimination Alliances consisting of two (2) Teams.

    (Emphasis mine)

    If an event chooses to run with fewer than sixteen (16) Alliances, then they will use the bracket
    shown above, with byes awarded when there is no applicable Alliance. For example, in a
    tournament with fourteen (14) Alliances, Alliances 1 and 2 would automatically advance.

    (Emphasis Mine)

  8. areitzig

    Dec 6 Event Partner

    So, to verify, are you saying Alliances have to have two teams, always, no matter what, so the last team gets eliminated?

  9. Not eliminated. They just don't go to eliminations. It is very common at large events that not everyone gets to play in eliminations.

  10. 536Mentor

    Dec 6 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Appleton, WI 536

    Yes, alliances are ALWAYS two teams. You adjust your number of elimination alliances to the number of teams in the event up to 16 2-team alliances.
    16-23 Teams - typically 8 2-team alliances with no byes
    24-31 Teams - typically 12 2-team alliances with the top 4 seeds getting byes into the quarterfinals.
    >32 Teams typically 16 2-team alliances with no byes
    These are the recommended brackets by RECF. I guess one could also run other sizes, but some sizes don't work well. 10 alliances does not work very well, but 14 alliances just means the top two seeds get byes into the quarterfinals. As John Tyler mentioned above, it is not unusual for some teams to not make it into the elimination rounds depending on the size of the event and the size of the elimination bracket. For example, if a 24 team event is set up for 12 alliances and a team drops out, the eliminations needs to be changed to 11 alliances and one team will not participate.

  11. sankeydd

    Dec 6 Event Partner

    If every team declines to be selected by the first alliance then you will have eight alliances of one team.

    So through declining, some weird things could happen.

  12. Got a Screw Loose

    Dec 6 Ohio 44833B

    @sankeydd If every team declines to be selected by the first alliance then you will have eight alliances of one team.

    So through declining, some weird things could happen.

    But would that happen? Would the bottom seed really decline an invitation?

  13. CyberHawks7983

    Dec 6 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Bakersfield, CA 7983 (A,J,K,M,R,U,W,Z)

    Then why does it give you the option to do unbalanced alliances still?

  14. lacsap

    Dec 6 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Massachusetts 9791[a-z]

    @CyberHawks7983 Then why does it give you the option to do unbalanced alliances still?

    TM is designed to be generalized across a whole spectrum of game configurations.

    RECF determines what is a qualified tournament result based on running the event according to the Game Manual and circumstances that are local to the event.

  15. Rick TYler

    Dec 6 Teachers/Coaches, Event Partner, V5 Beta Moderator Redmond, Washington Founder of Exothermic Robotics
    Edited last week by Rick TYler

    "Unbalanced" never gave the ability to create 1-team alliances. It allows 2-team alliances in an unbalanced tournament of 3-team elimination alliances, but since there are no 3-team alliances this season, the question is moot.

    Also, no matter how many teams decline, there will NEVER be 1-team alliances. If all but 8 teams (for example) decline, Tournament Manager would be reconfigured (don't ask) and the Eliminations would be played with 4 alliances.

    I've been away from the RECF for a couple of years, but I'd bet a dollar this has not changed.

  16. sazrocks

    Dec 6 Arizona 2114V
    Edited last week by sazrocks

    @Rick TYler "Unbalanced" never gave the ability to create 1-team alliances. It allows 2-team alliances in an unbalanced tournament of 3-team elimination alliances, but since there no 3-team alliances this season, the question is moot.

    Also, no matter how many teams decline, there will NEVER be 1-team alliances. If all but 8 teams (for example) decline, Tournament Manager would be reconfigured (don't ask) and the Eliminations would be played with 4 alliances.

    I've been away from the RECF for a couple of years, but I'd bet a dollar this has not changed.

    The GDC last year said that this was possible: https://www.vexforum.com/index.php/29566-answered-everyone-declines-alliance-captain/0

    But of course this is a crazy situation that would never happen in real life.

  17. lacsap

    Dec 6 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Massachusetts 9791[a-z]

    @Rick TYler "Unbalanced" never gave the ability to create 1-team alliances. It allows 2-team alliances in an unbalanced tournament of 3-team elimination alliances, but since there no 3-team alliances this season, the question is moot.

    correct - a lot of history in TM that many do not understand. Sorry to have been overly generic.

  18. Rick TYler

    Dec 6 Teachers/Coaches, Event Partner, V5 Beta Moderator Redmond, Washington Founder of Exothermic Robotics
    Edited last week by Rick TYler

    @sazrocks The GDC last year said that this was possible: https://www.vexforum.com/index.php/29566-answered-everyone-declines-alliance-captain/0

    But of course this is a crazy situation that would never happen in real life.

    I stand corrected. That was after I left the RECF... If you have to play with 1-team alliances, I pity the inexperienced EP or scorekeeper who needs to get TM to accept it. Hint: use the setup option for "large event/expert" tournaments.

    On the other hand, it's a goofy question. Once the head ref carefully explains, "If you decline, you are done for the day," declines to turn to acceptances really quickly.

 

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