Need accounts from those who have knocked caps out while in gameplay

  1. 2 weeks ago

    T3RMINATOR

    Jan 7 North Carolina 2777X

    My team and I have been discussing the best method of de-scoring recently and we have come to the conclusion that it is possible to shoot the caps off the posts. We currently have a metal bar that can only de-score low post caps as it can't reach the top. We are going from a 6 motor chassis with a 4 motor flywheel, a 1 motor intake, and 1 motor de-scorer to a 8 motor chassis with a planned 1 motor intake and 3 motor flywheel. My question is how have ref's reacted to teams that have knocked caps off posts. It seems hard to determine intention or not and from a lot of what I've read and seen, it is left to ref's discretion as to DQ and or warn. We have found a way for low caps to be knocked back into the field off of low posts when we shoot them with a ball from our flywheel. My thinking is that if they fall in multiple times in a match and then we go to shoot the high post ones and they fall out, the refs would see the caps falling out as non intentional... it is a very "sketchy" line to walk. Just wanting to see other people's experiences with ref's and their rulings on caps going out of the field.

    -2777X

  2. lacsap

    Jan 7 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Massachusetts 9791[a-z]

    I warn that balls shot in this way may be considered a violation of <S1> .

    We had a face injury during the summer due to a misfired ball.

  3. JuiceBox

    Jan 7 Ohio 6741E

    Shooting balls at caps is very risky due to the chance of you missin by a little and nailing someone that’s in front of the field, if highly suggest you just keep a descoring arm to avoid any Vance of injury and DQ because if you repeatedly knock them out of the field you will be penalized

  4. 536Mentor

    Jan 7 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Appleton, WI 536

    This is my take. Yes, it is possible to shot the caps off of the posts. And unintentionally knocking game pieces out of the field is not illegal. However, if your strategy results in game objects leaving the field on multiple occasions, even if each instance it is not your intent to do so, I would first warn you, then if you repeated it, I could possibly DQ you. To me, if you continue to remove game pieces from the field, even unintentionally, throughout the day, then you are violating the rule and your intent is irrelevant. Not to mention the safety issues stated above.

  5. FatGorilla

    Jan 7 Michigan 3333B - Butter

    Check the official Q and A. there is a recent post about this but it has not been answered yet

  6. Bhargav S.

    Jan 7 Maryland 952C

    Not related, but do you not have an indexer for your flywheel?

  7. Robo_Eng_13

    Jan 7 Indiana 1483

    If you are deliberately knocking low caps off into the field to obfuscate the fact that you are knowingly knocking the high caps out of the field, and one of my refs caught you, you would be out. A lot of the rules surrounding the game are flexible. I don't particularly care if a person swaps teams or uses an illegal battery charger. I also highly encourage people to find creative ways to abuse the rules and work through loop holes. However, this is explicitly against the rules and your are actively trying to deceive the refs during a match. Not okay.

  8. Adam T

    Jan 7 Event Partner Jenison, MI Jension Robotics

    If your game strategy has high likelihood of putting game objects out of play then the refs won't allow repeated violations.

    If a descore arm contacts a scored cap from the out of play side and attempts to knock a cap back into the field, you are likely to be ok.

    If the arm contacts the cap on the field side and knocks it out, then the refs will warn and then DQ if match affecting.

    If a team uses a ball to descore caps, the ball and cap better land in the field of play 99.9% of the time. That's a tough standard to meet with that strategy.

  9. When you knock low pole caps, the cap more-often-than-not goes back into the field? What about the ball used to shoot the cap?

    When you knock high pole caps, it sounds like you can't get the cap to go back into the field? And maybe you're just hoping they won't notice? What about that ball?

    Imo, if the low cap and ball typically goes in that seems not as difficult to call ok (although it may not fly with the ref, and both should go in a large % of the time), but the high cap out sounds like an illegal strategy for sure. Also, if the balls themselves always go out then you are still intentionally moving game pieces off the field...

  10. lacsap

    Jan 7 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Massachusetts 9791[a-z]

    @TeamTX What about that ball?

    Balls may not be returned to the field.

    Caps will be returned to the field if it can be determined which team put them out of the field with color of the opposing team.

  11. Got a Screw Loose

    Jan 7 Ohio 44833B

    I would not risk this strategy for the reasons stated above. While shooting descorers are very cool, they aren’t really practical with the rule set.

  12. @lacsap Balls may not be returned to the field.

    Caps will be returned to the field if it can be determined which team put them out of the field with color of the opposing team.

    To clarify - when you (OP) shoot the ball at the cap, does the ball go out of the field (after which it can't be returned) or does the ball hit the cap and bounce back into the field? If 99% of the time the ball goes out of the field, wouldn't that alone make this an illegal strategy whether the cap usually drops into the field or not?

    <SG8> Keep Game Objects in the field. Though it is expected that some Game Objects may unintentionally leave the field during Match play, Teams may not intentionally or strategically remove Game Objects from the field. a. Balls that leave the field during regular Match play, accidentally or intentionally, will not be returned to the field. b. Caps that leave the field during regular Match play will be returned to the nearest foam tile, Low Scored for the opposite Alliance color of the last Robot to contact it. If a referee cannot determine which Robot was the last to contact the Cap, then the Cap will not be returned to the field. An intent of this rule is to prevent Robots from “knocking” Caps out of the field to remove them from Posts. Any strategic, intentional, or repeated removal of Game Objects from the field would be considered a violation of this rule. Minor violations of this rule that do not affect the Match will result in a warning. Match Affecting offenses will result in a Disqualification. Teams that receive multiple warnings may also receive a Disqualification at the Head Referee's discretion.

  13. last week

    lacsap

    Jan 7 Event Partner, V5 Beta Tester Massachusetts 9791[a-z]
    Edited last week by lacsap

    @TeamTX To clarify - when you (OP) shoot the ball at the cap, does the ball go out of the field (after which it can't be returned) or does the ball hit the cap and bounce back into the field? If 99% of the time the ball goes out of the field, wouldn't that alone make this an illegal strategy whether the cap usually drops into the field or not?

    I would put that under common sense - don't employ strategies which will result in game objects leaving the field 99% of the time - which to the referee looks intentional.

    I would support my head referee 100% not allowing it if they chose to not allow it. Balls are intended to be available for toggling flags.

  14. Xenon

    Jan 9 Long Beach, California 99999V

    this is a pretty bad idea... common sense says firing balls away from their intended targets and possibly towards the driver station is not a good plan.

  15. I think that there might be something about that in the referee training videos

  16. AlexM_4478X

    Jan 10 Monroe, CT 4478X

    Also, if I recall correctly, it is not allowed to intentionally shoot balls out of the field. This is very clearly intentional because you are not attempting to score the flags, so that may also cause issues with the rules

 

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