20 Point Zone Auton Discussion

A common autonomous routine this year is to stack some cones on a mogo and score it in the 20. People usually leave the mogo there throughout the rest of the match, as it is difficult to remove it. This may seem like a wasted mogo to some people, as more cones could have been stacked on it. This idea does have some validity, as it likely yields the 20 point zone high stack bonus to the other team. However, scoring a mogo with some cones on it in the 20 during autonomous is a high scoring auton, and it is likely to get the team the auton bonus, which is 5 points more than the high stack bonus. Therefore, it can be concluded that this auton routine is better, provided you can win the auton bonus with it.

That condition is a pretty difficult condition to guarantee, though. What if your opponents’ routine scored more than your alliance’s? Does that mean you should run a different auton routine so you don’t lose both the auton bonus and the high stack bonus? What impact does how much your alliance partner’s auton scores have? It’s hard to get the auton bonus with only your robot, so will is be better to run a different program? If you can’t stack very high in the 20 point zone even in driver contorl, do you run your 20 point zone auton for the chance of winning auton if your opponent fails?
(These questions aren’t targeted at anyone in particular: just “you” in the general sense.)

Thinking about all the possibilities is really confusing, so I wanted others’ opinions.

10pts is quite a lot, but taking time to put a mogo into the 20pt zone often isn’t worth it. Instead of doing a single 20pt mogo, the partner should also run a program that will dump a mogo in the 10 with a few more cones on it, that way the high stack bonus from the opponent with more cones on it is essentially negated, and you are able to win autonomous because you have more cones in the 10 (you have more time). Another option is to stack onto the stationary with the preload, grab a mogo, take the cone right in front of it, and then put it in the 10pt zone. This covers the most bases.

Our robot can’t actually put a mogo in the 20pt zone (keep in mind we have a design focused on fielding), as we often find alliance partners who are able to put mobile goals in the 20pt zone. Running a different autonomous that can make up that 20pts is pretty difficult (1 on stationary = 7, mogo + 3 cones in 10pt = 16, totalled = 23 - still not enough to overcome that 20pt lead). It would be worth it to run that same 20 pt auton and throughout the rest of the match make it up by stacking 5 more cones. Taking the 5 seconds to place something in the 20 pt zone during a match is also time you could stack ~4 cones. It really comes down to who you’re against and who you’re with. Have multiple autonomous programs so that you can cover all the bases, getting you the combination with the most number of high stack bonuses and mogos in scoring zones (20 + high stack, 10 + high stack, stationary high stack). Having cones on mogos will become more and more important, but there’s a limit to how many you can stack on a mobile goal in the 20 pt zone during autonomous (we’ve only ever managed 4 in 17 seconds).

Winning autonomous by placing a mobile goal in the 20 point zone is vital in high level matches. However, if you are trying to go for a really high score against… less than competitive opponents, you can probably put a cone or two on the stationary goal and place a mobile goal with a cone or two in the 10 point zone in autonomous, and retrieve that mobile goal and have plenty of real estate for cones, with an auton bonus and highest stack bonus on the stationary goal claimed to boot.

Not intending to be rude, only constructive… you should be able to put a mobile goal in the 20 point zone. We only use one motor on our mobile goal lift, and we have cleanly placed a stack of 15 in the 20 point zone. A lot of VEX robotics in my experience is challenging your preconceived notions of what is or is not good or viable, and it will help you moving forward if you realize that having a mobile goal lift that can place in the 20 point zone should be possible regardless of your design.

no offense taken, we actually can put a mogo in the 20pt zone (https://youtu.be/xMBUGaLZ-0A) using our 6 motor turbo drive without a lift, and when we put a lift on our robot stalls a bit trying to get over the bump (our lift isn’t even that heavy?). I think it’s because our chassis is a little bit short, the front wheels can get over just fine, the rear wheels don’t have enough speed/torque/momentum to get over. Once over (we’ve done this 2/3 times in practice), we have no speed to get out. Extending the base would help but with a comp in a week we decided to just stack 10 cones in the time it would take to struggle in and out.

If we make it to state, we’re definitely extending our base (tipping problems too woohoo) (https://youtu.be/YCxDbocjEl8?t=14997) youtube doesn’t like time-stamped videos so we’re at 4:11:37 (the huge tip + mogo trap)

This is interesting. If you are able to place a cone on the stationary and stack two more cones on a 10 point mogo than you opponent did on their 20 point mogo, then you would have more points. This might be the best non 20 point zone auton since the stationary goal is pretty close and the potential 7 point advantage would be effective in terms of points per second.

But if your opponents can place a higher stack in the 20 in auton, would it be better to accept the auton loss and try and build a higher stack in the field potentially without even scoring it? Will this slight advantage in field cones be enough to overcome the auton bonus loss?

Super simple solution to this problem: There are two bots on the field. Have one go for the twenty, have the other go for cones. Problem solved.

I think that a 20 point autonomous is good because this year i’ve seen multiple robots with a bar that just tips mobiles, so that means you are securing 20 points plus a likely 10 point bonus and it protects more points from a bot that tips mobiles.

keep in mind that tipping back a mobile goal takes about 2 seconds? It’s worse if they’ve caged the mobile goals…

I am one that believes doing a mogo in the twenty during auton is a worse decision. while yes ten points is a bit it is only 5 cones. If you and your partner run autons that set you up for a quicker start for the match it ends up making the match better. In my last tournament the 1st seed gave up the auton, which set up 3 cones already for a twenty mogo place. The other mogo stayed in the ten point which can be picked up later. Being able to place at least ten cones in the twenty is a major advantage, being that now you have the ability to say"How many in their 20 point? add 5 cones and you just made a 5 point advantage.

What you have to remember is that your partner can still go over and stack cones while you score your 20 pt autonomous. So really, you’re only starting two or three cones down, and if you’re willing to push your 20 pt autonomous. Also, as the season goes on, and as we see pairs of good bots face off, we’re going to see cones being gone at about the 30 seconds left mark or so, leaving plenty of time for teams to unload mg’s onto other goals, and I don’t see any reason why you can’t do that to claim the 20 pt zone high stack bonus.

With AP’s being the tie breaker after WP’s for qualifications it might be needed to put a mobile goal in the twenty pt zone to win the 10 AP pts. While in finals it only affects the 10 pt bonus. I would not be surprised that teams go for the twenty in quals, and not go for the twenty in eliminations.

We usually score in the ten with two cones, and back up about an inch or two. That way once driver control starts we can pick it back up within the first seconds, and add as many cones as we feel we need to secure the 20 point highest stack. Unless we’re up against teams that we know can’t get more than two cones on a goal in the 20 pt, we don’t use it a 20 pt auton

This is probably a good strategy, but at worlds everyone’s going to have a 20 pt auton

Yeah, we still have one that can put a goal with two cones in the twenty. We just don’t like to use it

Having multiple autons ready is by far the best way to ensure you have the best autonomous possible.

We currently have 19 different options :stuck_out_tongue:

Ok, that is a little much…

Just a little note- I don’t think I’ve seen it yet in this thread but I’ve heard a lot of references to how nbn teams would opt to lose autonomous in favor of fielding balls rather than driver loading them, and how that could be mirrored this year in going for cones rather than the auton bonus.
However, I would like to note that the balls in nbn were worth 5 points a piece, meaning that scoring just two of them was the same as winning autonomous. Furthermore, bonus balls were worth 10 points, so hoarding one of those was the same as winning autonomous. However, in itz, cones are only worth 2 pts a piece, while the auton is still worth ten. So I highly doubt auton strategies will mirror those of nbn.

We like to be thourogh :stuck_out_tongue: 90% of the time we only use one that scores a goal with our preload in the ten point Zone.