2587z DiscoBots Reveal Film - Math Division

[RIGHT][/RIGHT]Here is our send off video for our 2013 robot:


**A few notes:
6 motor drive (1:1.6)
1 motor table (1:1.6)
1 motor collector (2:1)
2 motor/pneumatic hybrid lift (7:1 + 2 pistons).
27 sack maximum
285pt driver skills
MATH division!!!

Our unpainted robot with our old box roller is seen in a few shots.

Song: Supremacy by Muse
Stock footage from Nasa.gov

We have has a wonderful season so far and can’t wait to compete tomorrow. Come talk in the pits! DISCO DISCO!


We will post pictures soon… stay tuned.

According to the finals page ! we won worlds … but in reality, we did not win.
The red and blue alliance scores are swapped.


Hopefully someone at RECF fixes this so the true winners get their proper credit

Hope they fix that.

That is cool. You are the true winner!!

You guys did really good job. You almost brought back Texas a championship.

Thank you – I’ve reported this to the IT folks.

Sad to see such a beautiful machine disassembled :frowning:

Thank you for that wonderfully positive and constructive comment. Next time please keep it to your self, k?

Discobots were an awesome team to be allianced with, along with Patribots.
Discobots ranked first in Math division qualification, won Math division, won round robin and lost the final.

This is not achieved by having a lucky schedule. This is achieved by having a very strong robot, driver and team.

PS I liked the video but Kiwis should not be devoured. They should be savoured, :smiley:

Go well next season guys, Paul

I didnt know it was legal for you to paint tank tread?! Mainly becasuse it comes in contact with the sacks.

p.s. Should of picked me as a third ;p jk 1615 had a great bot
p.s.s Bots ‘n’ Stuff took home 18 awards I think

They replaced the tread with unpainted tread for worlds.

If I remember the list correctly, Your team was right behind 1615a,
You guys had a great robot !

We also like to savour kiwis ! Kiwis are great !
New Zealand had far and away the best performance by any country at Worlds.
3 of the 6 final teams were from New Zealand.

Keep up the great work, we look forward to working with Kiwis in the future !

We posted up pictures from vex worlds 2013


Thanks to steve from DPRG for posting a huge photo album of VEX worlds.


We agree. The DiscoBots did a great job at Worlds.

Everyone seems to have come down very hard on meatboy123 for his comment. He is correct that the DiscoBots had an unusually easy schedule by no fault of their own. This is, in our opinion, one of the largest inequalities in any VEX event. Just by the law of probabilities, some robots will have very easy schedules, some will have average schedules, and some will have extremely difficult schedules.

Now for the facts. The DiscoBots had the easiest schedule in the Math division. We have an internal iOS app that we generate these statistics. The numbers are the numbers. The DiscoBots played with an alliance partner with an average rank of 20.3. They played against opponents with an average rank of 56.8. Since there were 84 teams, the mean would be 42.

The DiscoBots alliance partners had rankings of 29, 4, 7, 51, 49, 6, 36, 10, 3, and 2. Six out of their ten alliance partners were in the top ten. Their opponents ranks were 53, 64, 70, 80, 56, 26, 55, 65, 27, 21, 84, 72, 76, 57, 77, 79, 35, 48, 47, and 44. None of their opponents were in the top 20, and they only had one opponent in the top 25. In fact, this schedule was the easiest schedule in all five divisions.

Contrast this with 1064A (OPS - Nebraska Nerd Herd). They had the second hardest schedule in the Math division. They played with alliance partners whose average rank was 61.0, and they played against opponents with an average rank of 36.8. Their alliance partners had the following ranks: 56, 41, 79, 77, 76, 75, 58, 22, 67, and 59. They only had one alliance partner in the top 40. Their opponents had the following ranks: 30, 72, 35, 57, 47, 27, 28, 71, 13, 8, 5, 10, 63, 15, 74, 17, 49, 43, 7, and 65. Four out of their twenty opponents were in the top ten, and they played against ten opponents in the top 30.

Unfortunately, 1064A played on average (combining the strengths of both their alliance partners and opponents) 61.3 robots more difficult than 2587Z. If 1064A would have had the schedule that the DiscoBots had, they would have most likely finished in the top 10. Their fate was sealed as soon as the schedules were generated. If the DiscoBots would have had as hard a schedule as 1064A, they most likely would not have finished in the Top 5 or even 10.

9090C (T-VEX) also had a difficult schedule. They played with alliance partners with an average rank of 52.5 and against opponents with an average rank of 42.7, with an overall average of 51.8.

Some robots go to events and never really understand why they have a great robot and did not perform as expected. Sometimes they have extremely hard schedules. Some robots go to competitions and perform above their ability. They might have just lucked out and had a very easy schedule. We use these statistics to determine whether a robot should have really been higher or lower in the rankings, depending on their schedule strength.

I hope this analysis helps in this discussion by our use of hard statistics. It is very unfortunate that over 400 robots show up to the world competition and there are extremely large inequalities in schedule strength. In the future, we may release all of the data for all divisions and all robots at Worlds (time permitting).


Hi, TexasVex, Your analysis was very thorough. I noticed ithat after Friday’s competition. Thanks pointed out 9090C had very difficult schedules. We had only allied once with 1 team who was ranked top 10. We was ranked #11 and promoted to #7 after some top teams was picked. Interesting thing was that nobody wanted to pick 9090c as an ally because of the rank. But we still made our way to semifinals. I was really proud of our team.

I’d love to see this app or even just an overall spreadsheet :slight_smile:
After working with 1064A all season and not getting to catch any of their matches in worlds, I was very surprised that they lost so many matches, but I guess its just luck of the draw.

Their opponents ranks were 53, 64, 70, 80, 56, 26, 55, 65, 27, 21, 84, 72, 76, 57, 77, 79, 35, 48, 47, and 44. None of their opponents were in the top 20, and they only had one opponent in the top 25. In fact, this schedule was the easiest schedule in all five divisions.

Rank is the not the best metric to determine strength of schedule. Therefore basing claims such as easy or hard seems a bit of a stretch.

But if we want to do the numbers, driver & programming skills are a much better metric to compute actual robot performance.

Another hole in the argument of an easy schedule would be why did the DiscoBots have the highest SP out of all the 9-1 teams ?
(in theory , an easier schedule would produce a much lower SP since your opponents would score few points)

This year harder matches tended to generate less SPs, not more. Better robots were better at descoring, and the more descoring there is in a match the fewer SPs are generated. My team had an extremely difficult schedule, and only one of our alliance partners had a winning record while we were paired against several of the top teams in the arts division. We closed with the lowest SPs in the division. Although it’s true rank is not always a great indicator, SPs are a far worse indication of difficulty of matches as they are often inversely proportional to match difficulty.

I agree with TexasVex. In order to be undefeated at worlds, you had to have had an easy schedule. The top robot at the competition could not have won a 1v2 against other strong teams.

Having an easy match schedule by no means makes a team bad. You had a great robot, as did many of the teams in the top 10 in every division. The top teams needed to have both a great robot and a relatively easy schedule.

Actually if a team with a strong alliance competed with weak alliances, the team could easily control its SP numbers, and 10 points autonomous bonus is meaningless.

Hi Lyncas,

Again, let me say that you guys have a great robot and you had to be good in order to go 9-1. This discussion by no means is a avenue to discount the fact you guys have a great all around robot and program that is envied by many.

If a robot has a schedule that is filled by high ranking alliances and lower rank opponents the SP’s can be manipulated. An easy schedule allows the robot to score very high. In turn, this allows the robot to manipulate the SP’s by scoring for the opponents. If you never have to worry about descoring because your opponents are not defending you or they are not scoring much. I think SP’s are only valid if robots were actually not able to score for the opposing alliance.

SP’s are only valid considering that all robots with the same record had the same strength of schedule. I know of no other type of competition where opponents actually score for the other team. If you disallowed intentionally scoring for the other alliances I think that would be a better measure of strength. I would guess that the DiscoBots scored many times for the opposing alliance and you did not have to de-score much at all. I would also guess that T-Vex and the OPS 1064A did not have that luxury because they were fighting for their life almost every match.

Again, congrats on your success at worlds!!


Rank is a far better metric than the current “farm-able” system of losing team’s score. At least ally/opponent final ranks are only influenced by ally/opponent strength of schedule (aka luck) which is probably balanced out between the 30 total allies/opponents you would have in a 10 qualification match tournament.

Driver skills and programming skills are a good metric for robot quality, but match performance is a different ballgame from pure scoring on an empty field. I think what separates the great teams from the good teams is intelligent strategic decisions. For example, one simple strategic rule that lots of teams seem to ignore is that sometimes sitting still and staying where you are is the best thing you can do to win the match.

Owen has already argued against this point and I agree with him completely.

Edit: Just to make it clear, I’m not saying that the Discobots are a bad team or had a bad robot by any means. Regardless of how lucky a team gets in terms of qualification matches, it still takes a great robot, solid drive team and top-notch programming to seed first in your division and to take on all of the other Division Champions in the Round Robin to go as far as to the finals. I just have to agree with TexasVex that the SP system in VEX is extremely flawed (there was a whole thread about this already of course) and that luck ends up having a giant influence on records and alliance selection.