I’m a parent of a new MS team, and have a slightly sensitive question to ask, but I would ask for advice.
Our team recently competed in the qualifiers for worlds in our country (a “nationals” here from which the winners of the tournament and excellence awards go to Worlds). We observed some strange behavior from one of the teams and wanted to check if this is allowable, or against the rules somehow.
The MS team’s robot was identical to their HS team’s robot, we observed in ways that couldn’t really be coincidence.
The MS team signed up for the “nationals” competition only 2 weeks ago; prior to that they haven’t been seen at any scrimmages or other competitions.
Is it allowable for teams to copy each other’s robots? We didn’t get to see the team’s notebook. There are anecdotes about the team’s coach helping with the building, and interestingly their MS team’s robot scored slightly higher than their HS team’s robot on skills (it’s a mixed MS/HS competition here, not sure if that’s how it is elsewhere). Of course nothing we can prove, but just wondering to what extent this is allowed under the rules, and if it isn’t how to raise this? Normally I wouldn’t make a fuss about this, but in this case 3 of the kids are actually pointing this out independently, so I take it a bit more seriously.
Forgive me please if my question is out of line; I am still new to this. Thank you.
Welcome to the forums! Pretend VEX cheating/ copying as the American legal system. Not guilty until proven e.c.t. They could have just had the high schools make it; or that middle school team made/ designed it. We don’t know because only the team and judges would know. Also your question was not out of line, and this has happened before in both IQ and V5. If there is suspicion, you can just ask the team to see their notebook. It would look very suspicious if they tried to hide it or reject your request.
Concerns about perceived issues should be addressed at the event to the Event Partner. After the event, best to reach out to the RECF Region Support Manager.
The Game Manual is clear that the robot competing should reflect the experience of the team. That said, if the team is part of a larger club/organization, there will be some common practices to be adopted by members, this is no different than teams who are inspired by watching countless hours of YouTube videos, going to competitions, learning from their siblings or friend’s siblings, etc.
While your concerns are troubling, trust that seasoned coaches/mentors are likely addressing these concerns if they deem it to be an issue. As a parent, you are supporting your child’s interests by connecting them to one of the most engaging STEM activities that will develop many skills.
You say you are new to this and you care, we’ve all been there, one thing you can do to support competitive robotics is to volunteer at events. There are so many aspects of competition that need more volunteers - judging, officiating, emcees, queuers, tournament operations, … , the list goes on, but being connected to competition environment is an opportunity to learn how competitions work first hand, vs perception of student competitors.
If the MS team did copy the HS team, then this would be outlawed by G4. However, violations of this rule are hard to prove because, as you stated, it is incredibly difficult to definitively prove that a team really did copy another team.
Actually, opposite is true - if some random person comes to ask to see your engineering notebook and is not the Judge Advisor or RECF Representative, it will be a very suspicious ask. Let those with the proper authority for cases of Student-Centered and/or Code of Conduct at the event it is the EP, Head Referee, and Judge Advisor in consultation with RECF, proceed with the procedures for CoC and Student-Centered policies reporting. In most cases, the reporting group from the event will not necessarily know the outcome of the RECF CoC investigations.
I am part of an organization, and part of the HS team. We have middle school teams, and they regularly look at our robot for design pointers. I would say that it depends on how closely the robot is to the HS team robot. There are a lot of terms “identical” could describe. As it could mean “using the same mechanism” to “holecounting the HS team robot”.
For your second question, I dont know what country you live in, so I dont really know the policy on competitions. In the USA where I live however, it is common to see teams only go to 1 or maybe 2 competitions. But I dont know the specifics, so take mine with a grain of salt.
As in the rulebook, the robot of a team should reflect their skill level as a robotics team. You stated that the MS robot scored higher in skills than the HS team. Since skills is well, name skills, I would assume they got a high Autom and Driver skills. This might point toward them sharing some ideas off each other, but based on that, and the actual “identicality” of the two robots, it is possible that the MS team copied the HS team, but its very hard to prove.