# Alliance's Robot Integration (A Super Arm Robot + a Super Base Robot)

Hi ppl
So each team is partner up with another team on the field, and 10 motors are allowed for each robot. I wonder what if we integrate our robot with our alliance’s to make a “super-bot” that has 20 motors?
For example, one alliance built a super-arm robot, which has all ten motors for the arm, or has most motors for the robot’s arm; And then another alliance built a super base robot (all 10 motors for the base, no arm). The width and length of the base-robot are adjustable (eg. using linear-slides) so then the base-bot is able clamped outside the arm-bot which the arm-bot can migrates around when is integrated with the base-bot… Two individual robots become one that come with high speed and torque base, and a greater scoring ability of the arm (eg. able to load more objects at once). Additionally, when two robots become one, the two alliance teams can unified their tasks and these two teams may also be able to cooperate perfectly together.

So far the game menu here doesn’t include things about integration of alliance’s robot: http://content.vexrobotics.com/docs/vex-sack-attack/VEX-Sack-Attack-Game-Manual_Rev01.pdf

Thank you

An admirable idea, but if your strategy relies on combining two robots to be effective, how will either of you be an alliance captain? If you expect to both be picked by an alliance captain (one as first pick, one as the second pick), the other alliance captains should definitely notice and split up the “superbot” by choosing one of you.

Especially at Worlds and certain large tournaments, the multiple divisions can mess up your strategy as well.

What about if the super-base 'bot and super-arm bot’s are not rare during the tournaments? So any super-arm 'bot can be compatible with any super-base 'bot. Let’s say all super-arm 'bots have rectangular bases that fit inside those size adjustable rectangular super-base 'bots, I guess it can be feasible.

It would be hard for numerous teams to be able to create robots that could be integrated with each other. Your method of clamping would require really specific characteristics, and if the teams aren’t in close contact with each other (same region), it would be hard to test to make sure the robots actually integrate.

Not only that, but I feel like many teams wouldn’t like the idea that their strategy banks on another team to be in the same division as them at Worlds. If your success at Worlds depends on another team (and my points in my previous post still apply), teams would probably rather rely on themselves.

I’m also not entirely sure if a 20 motor superbot would even be that effective. In some games (like Gateway), having 2 robots that can score on 2 different goals at the same time was important for bonus points. Granted wallbots were a sort of “superbot” in that game, it was still necessary for the two robots to be separate. If the arm of the superbot relies on the base to score, then its harder to use the 10 motor base to its advantage. You might as well split them up so that you have a scoring robot and a 10 motor wallbot (sounds familiar…) so that you can have dual specialization instead of having all the capabilities shoved into one robot.

The concept is really cool, just not sure how effective it will be.

I’m not sure will individual teams are willing to integrate their game strategies as well, but when comparing this year’s game with last year’s “Gateway”, the main scoring goals are centered on the field rather than scattered around on the edges, and it may be even better when robots in the same team don’t separate themselves for this year’s game.

it would work really well for college teams

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77719084@N05/7122080425/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/77719084@N05/7122080425/
Maybe something like this works.

This would work for college teams, especially given that the only difference I’ve noticed between the HS and College games this year is that 1 college robot must be 15"-15"-!5", and the other can be 24"-24"-24".

But what if the opposing college team had an independent super-scorer and a max-motor wallbot? Would the 20-motor super bot being constantly blocked by the wallbot be able to match the efficiency of the independent robot?

Or another interesting scenario. What if the wallbot has a transmission, and quickly slinks over during Autonomous to prevent the arm and base from coming together at all?

Overall, an interesting idea, but at the high school level, it has too many counters to be practical, unless you’re at a smaller tournament and your school has 3 teams:
1 A team with a super-efficient robot to jump into 1st seed.
1 B team with an expanding base-bot that intentionally performs pathetically in all of its qual. matches.
1 C team with a super arm-bot that also performs pathetically in all of its qual. matches.
No one would need to know about your B and C teams’ ability to merge until the eliminations, so during alliance selection, it will look like the A team is just picking the other teams from its school, and since the B and C teams were flopping all day, no one else will want to pick the B and C teams. Then, in the eliminations, you release your wrath.

The independent super-scorer you’ve mention will need around 2 to 4 motors for its own driving system and can have slow mobility. The super-base ‘bot is similar with the max-motor wallbot except it can be integrated with its alliance’s robot and may not need a wall since it’s wide enough to distance the opponent from the goal.

If there’s a max motor wallbot on opponent’s side, the teams can chose not to integrate their robot. It can be something like the super-base 'bot vs. the wallbot and the super-arm 'bot vs. whatever robot is on the opponent’s side.

The super-base ‘bot can reach to its alliance faster than the wallbot, since it is placed closer to its alliance when the game starts. There’s almost no risk of being interrupted during the integration.

Hopefully this works for high-school teams as well since both the super-arm and super-base robots can score by their own too.

I don’t see building this. Even if you did it with 2 subteams, the effectiveness would be nil because you wouldn’t score high enough in qualifiers to be picking.

Maybe College works differently, but I don’t see this happening with the way High School competitions are done.

Do it for fun… lol

If the school had a 3rd subteam that did place high enough to be a picking team, then it could work.

even if you got that far. you would have one efficient bot with one of the subteams that does nothing, or the base and arm subteams together against 2 efficient bots. so you would be going 1 v 2 in either scenario

Why does it has to be within a school? What about if one school has a base-bot(or some soft of defense bot) and another school has a heavy-arm-bot and both bots use uniform-shape bases that allows them to combine?

Something like a universal plug for robots?

It sounds like it would come together to build a fair robot, however, I do not believe that even such a monstrous robot holds any major benefit over two well built robots. Two robots can do twice the blocking, and even with 20 motors, it still makes up only one robot.

There are truly not much more places where you can stick a motor on an “arm-bot” such that it can trump two 10 motor robots.

This year’s game allows teams to “transfer” points from one trough to another. So if your team has a robot that takes away all sacks from opponent’s trough to your own (which locates right opponent’s trough, and maybe do it near the end of the game) your robot probably need around 10 motors for the arm to do so since there will be a lot of sacks at once and the sacks are heavy. So a super-arm bot may be useful, but a super-arm bot can be really slow-travelling, that’s why it needs to boots up its speed by enhancing another robot for the base (the super-base 'bot that I was talking about).

This is the beginning of my second year in VEX so the technical things I say above may not necessary be accurate, but that’s also a possible strategy I see for this year’s game.

It is much easier to coordinate your designs if you’re in the same school.

I found something in the Manual that may be a problem for the arm-bot. It would have to have at least 1 drivetrain motor.

I agree, it’s just too difficult for the High School Teams to build this, even if everyone went by a standard design to work with others, it’s still too difficult. Like others said, you cannot test, you can’t help others build to cope with your bot, and you cannot design very well over the computer.

Another major thing is is that if you built a super-scorer (or super-sacker :P) and were pared with another super-scorer in a qualification, you would probably lose. Same if you built the strong drive bot.

I don’t see any situation where having only one bot is better than having two bots in this competition. cool idea, but impractical for too many reasons.