Answered: Accidental Possession during Autonomous (SG8)

[Kevin_Boenisch]

Hi Karthik,

I have a few questions regarding Rule SG8 during autonomous. The rule is:

@VRC Toss Up Game Manual

Robots may not Possess more than three (3) BuckyBalls at once. Violations of this rule will result
in a warning for minor offenses which do not affect the match. Egregious (match affecting) offenses will
result in a Disqualification. Teams that receive multiple warnings may also receive a Disqualification at
the head referee’s discretion.

@VRC Toss Up Game Manual

Possessing – A Robot is considered to be Possessing a BuckyBall if it actively controlling the BuckyBall.
Examples of Possessing include:
• Carrying or holding BuckyBall(s) in the Robot
• Herding BuckyBalls, i.e. intentionally pushing or impelling BuckyBall(s) to a desired location or
path
o Accidentally Herding BuckyBall(s) (i.e. driving through BuckyBall(s) in the path of the
Robot) is not considered herding, and thus not considered Possessing
• Trapping BuckyBall(s), i.e. intentionally pressing BuckyBall(s) up against a field object

If a robot is doing something in the Hanging Zone, and in the process accidentally bumps the row of Bucky Balls along the wall while holding three, would this be a violation of SG8? The robot would only lightly hit the balls, maybe causing them to move a little, but nothing that could be score affecting. The first routine in this video shows what I mean:

5119z - VRC 2013-2014: Worlds Reveal (4 of 8) Auton Routines ...

A robot is in the hanging zone, holding 3 Bucky Balls, and tries to knock the Bucky Balls off the bump with the Big Ball. It hits it a little bit off, and one of the Bucky Balls stays on the bump. In the process of pushing the Big Ball farther over the bump, the corner of the robot hits the Bucky Ball and knocks it into the mid zone.

Is there a difference if the above happens, but instead of hitting it accidentally in the process of pushing the Big Ball, the robot is crossing the bump and hits it?

A robot starts in the hanging zone, picks up three Bucky Balls, and scatters the Bucky Balls on the bump by pushing the Big Ball into them. Up to this point, I am 100% sure this would be completely legal as per earlier clarifications. The following situations could happen after this:

-The robot crosses over the bump, accidentally hitting a Bucky Ball in the mid zone, which results in it moving but staying in the same zone.

-The robot crosses over the bump, accidentally hitting a Bucky Ball in the mid zone, which results in it moving and going into the goal zone. This was in no way intentional, as the robot was simply crossing the bump and in the process hit a Bucky Ball that had rolled so that it was in the way.

-The robot crosses the bump and goes into the goal zone, accidentally pushing Bucky Ball(s) into the goal zone that were in its way.

My interpretation is that these 3 situations would be legal because:
a) There is absolutely no way of knowing where your or the other teams’ Bucky Balls will roll to, and therefore would have no way to know if you would hit them and to avoid them.
b)These situations have happened many times, including in all 3 finals matches of the US Open:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AILtva-F4Zg

Finally, a robot is in the process of it’s normal autonomous routine, holding 3 Bucky Balls already. Because another robot pushed, launched, or otherwise moved Bucky Balls so that they are in your way, the robot accidentally drives through them. Would this be illegal? Would there be a difference if the opposing team with their balls did this or your alliance partner with your own balls? What if the opposing teams launched a Bucky Ball so that it intentionally lands in your way (not on the robot) trying to get you DQed?

Sorry about the long question, we just needed to clarify these situations as some of the clarifications, tournaments, and experiences have been contradicting about this.

Thank you in advance for your clarification, and everything you do for Vex!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AILtva-F4Zg)

[Karthik]

@Kevin_Team472

If a robot is doing something in the Hanging Zone, and in the process accidentally bumps the row of Bucky Balls along the wall while holding three, would this be a violation of SG8? The robot would only lightly hit the balls, maybe causing them to move a little, but nothing that could be score affecting. The first routine in this video shows what I mean:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by2xByGJqhw

This would result in a warning as per <SG8>.

@Kevin_Team472

A robot is in the hanging zone, holding 3 Bucky Balls, and tries to knock the Bucky Balls off the bump with the Big Ball. It hits it a little bit off, and one of the Bucky Balls stays on the bump. In the process of pushing the Big Ball farther over the bump, the corner of the robot hits the Bucky Ball and knocks it into the mid zone.

Is there a difference if the above happens, but instead of hitting it accidentally in the process of pushing the Big Ball, the robot is crossing the bump and hits it?

This would be a violation of <SG8> and most likely punished with a warning, with the unlikely potential of a DQ if the offense is Match affecting.

@Kevin_Team472

A robot starts in the hanging zone, picks up three Bucky Balls, and scatters the Bucky Balls on the bump by pushing the Big Ball into them. Up to this point, I am 100% sure this would be completely legal as per earlier clarifications. The following situations could happen after this:

-The robot crosses over the bump, accidentally hitting a Bucky Ball in the mid zone, which results in it moving but staying in the same zone.

-The robot crosses over the bump, accidentally hitting a Bucky Ball in the mid zone, which results in it moving and going into the goal zone. This was in no way intentional, as the robot was simply crossing the bump and in the process hit a Bucky Ball that had rolled so that it was in the way.

-The robot crosses the bump and goes into the goal zone, accidentally pushing Bucky Ball(s) into the goal zone that were in its way.

My interpretation is that these 3 situations would be legal because:
a) There is absolutely no way of knowing where your or the other teams’ Bucky Balls will roll to, and therefore would have no way to know if you would hit them and to avoid them.

Your interpretation is correct.

@Kevin_Team472

Finally, a robot is in the process of it’s normal autonomous routine, holding 3 Bucky Balls already. Because another robot pushed, launched, or otherwise moved Bucky Balls so that they are in your way, the robot accidentally drives through them. Would this be illegal? Would there be a difference if the opposing team with their balls did this or your alliance partner with your own balls? What if the opposing teams launched a Bucky Ball so that it intentionally lands in your way (not on the robot) trying to get you DQed?

This would be legal. This cannot be viewed as an intentional act as the BuckyBalls were not in a known location (i.e. their starting position).