Answered: Multiple doubler/negation scoring clarification

[jgraber]

Is there any <SG3> ruling if a Doubler/Negation Barrel is touching a robot, but not near a circular goal? eg Match-loaded at last second?

Quote:
<SG8a> If a Doubler Barrel (DB) and a Negation Barrel (NB) are scored in the same Circular Goal, they each have no effect on the score.

The following circular goal scoring examples should be clear,
but correct me if I’m wrong:
A) Red = 2 points ( 1 point + 1 bonus point)
B) Red + Red = 3 points ( 1 + bonus + additional 1 )
C) Red + DB = 4 points (doubled A)
D) Red + Red + DB = 6 points (doubled B)
E) Red + NB = 0 points ( negated)
F) Red + DB + NB = 2 points (double/negation cancel each other)
G) Red + NB + DB = 2 points (double/negation cancel in either order)
H) Red + NB + Red + DB = 3 points (double/negation cancel without adjacency)

Quote:
<SG8b> If more than one Doubler Barrel or Negation Barrel are scored in the same Circular Goal only the one closest to the foam field tiles will count.
I) Red + Red + DB + DB = 6 points (same as D, extra DB has no effect)
J) Red + Red + NB + NB = 0 points (same as E, extra NB has no effect)

Please clarify score for each of these,
all have 2 base points before DB/NB effects.

1. Red + DB + NB + DB = (two DB, one NB) = ?
2. Red + DB + DB + NB = (does order change matter) = ?
3. Red + NB + DB + NB = (two NB, two DB)

Likely answers are either
I) “opposites cancel, leftovers count” point values are 4,4,0
or II) “multiples ignored” point values are 2,2,2

[Karthik]

Please note, the answer to this question has been updated on 06/01/11. This response is being left here only for archiving purposes.

Is there any <SG3> ruling if a Doubler/Negation Barrel is touching a robot, but not near a circular goal? eg Match-loaded at last second?

No, SG3 only applies if the Doubler Barrel or Negation Barrel would be considered Scored if there was no contact with a Robot.

The following circular goal scoring examples should be clear,
but correct me if I’m wrong:
A) Red = 2 points ( 1 point + 1 bonus point)
B) Red + Red = 3 points ( 1 + bonus + additional 1 )
C) Red + DB = 4 points (doubled A)
D) Red + Red + DB = 6 points (doubled B)
E) Red + NB = 0 points ( negated)
F) Red + DB + NB = 2 points (double/negation cancel each other)
G) Red + NB + DB = 2 points (double/negation cancel in either order)
H) Red + NB + Red + DB = 3 points (double/negation cancel without adjacency)

The scores for scenarios A-H are all correct.

I) Red + Red + DB + DB = 6 points (same as D, extra DB has no effect)
J) Red + Red + NB + NB = 0 points (same as E, extra NB has no effect)

Yes, the scores scenarios I & J are correct/

Please clarify score for each of these,
all have 2 base points before DB/NB effects.

1. Red + DB + NB + DB = (two DB, one NB) = ?
2. Red + DB + DB + NB = (does order change matter) = ?
3. Red + NB + DB + NB = (two NB, two DB)

1. 4 points. One Doubler cancels one Negation. The second Doubler counts.
2. 4 points. Order does not matter.
3. 0 points. Similar rationale to scenario 1.

[Karthik]

Is there any <SG3> ruling if a Doubler/Negation Barrel is touching a robot, but not near a circular goal? eg Match-loaded at last second?

No, SG3 only applies if the Doubler Barrel or Negation Barrel would be considered Scored if there was no contact with a Robot.

The following circular goal scoring examples should be clear,
but correct me if I’m wrong:
A) Red = 2 points ( 1 point + 1 bonus point)
B) Red + Red = 3 points ( 1 + bonus + additional 1 )
C) Red + DB = 4 points (doubled A)
D) Red + Red + DB = 6 points (doubled B)
E) Red + NB = 0 points ( negated)
F) Red + DB + NB = 2 points (double/negation cancel each other)
G) Red + NB + DB = 2 points (double/negation cancel in either order)
H) Red + NB + Red + DB = 3 points (double/negation cancel without adjacency)

The scores for scenarios A-H are all correct.

I) Red + Red + DB + DB = 6 points (same as D, extra DB has no effect)
J) Red + Red + NB + NB = 0 points (same as E, extra NB has no effect)

Yes, the scores scenarios I & J are correct.

Please clarify score for each of these,
all have 2 base points before DB/NB effects.

1. Red + DB + NB + DB = (two DB, one NB) = ?
2. Red + DB + DB + NB = (does order change matter) = ?
3. Red + NB + DB + NB = (two NB, two DB)

1. 2 points. As per <SG8> (see below), if more than one of one type of Barrel is Scored only the Barrel closest to the foam field tiles will count.

<SG8> If a Doubler Barrel and a Negation Barrel are scored in the same Circular Goal, they each have no effect on the score. If more than one Doubler Barrel or Negation Barrel are scored in the same Circular Goal only the one closest to the foam field tiles will count.

2. 2 points. See scenario 1.
3. 2 points. Similar rationale to scenario 1.

[jgraber]

Per discussion elsewhere, I didn’t realize <SG3> intersected with <SG8>, let me look again.

<SG3> A Barrel or Ball is not considered scored if it is being touched by a robot on an alliance of the same color at the end of the Match.

Aha, Double and Negator barrels are not “colored” so they are still “scored” when being touched by a red or blue robot. I was missing that.

{<SG3a> : jg} If a Robot is touching a {scored :jg} Doubler Barrel at the end of the Match, the Doubler Barrel will only double the value of all points for the opposing Alliance in the Circular Goal. (See figure 12)
{<SG3b> :jg} If a Robot is touching a {scored :jg} Negation Barrel at the end of the Match, the Negation Barrel will only cancel the value of all points for its own Alliance in the Circular Goal. (See figure 13)

How does the (my bold emphasis) language in <SG8> intersect the <SG3> (my added a,b) parts:

<SG8> If a Doubler Barrel and a Negation Barrel are scored in the same Circular Goal, they each have no effect on the score.
If more than one Doubler Barrel or Negation Barrel are scored in the same Circular Goal only the one closest to the foam field tiles will count.

What is the score and reasoning for each of these scoring scenarios:
Format key:

• bottom to top, R=Red, B = Blue, D=doubler, N=Negator,
• tr = touched by red robot, tb = touched by blue robot
• {redscore,bluescore} red reasoning, blue reasoning
• restarting enumeration from A, independent of original letters/numbers
  A) R : {2,0} 1 + 1bonus
  B) R,B : {2,1} 1 + 1bonus, 1 scored
  C) R, D : {4,0} ((1 + 1bonus) * Doubler), none scored
  D) R,B,D : {4,2} Doubled version of case B)
  E) R,B,D,D : {4,2} Same as D) since <SG8b> only closest to bottom counts
  F) R,B,D,Dtb : {4,2} Same as D)&E) <SG8b> since touching non-bottom Doubler doesn’t change score ???
  G) R,B,Dtr : {2,2} 1+1bonus no doubler due <SG3a>, 1 * Doubler due <SG3a>
  H) R,B,Dtr,D : {2,2} Same as G) <SB8b> only closest to bottom Double counts ???
  I) R,B,Dtrtb : both red & blue robots touching the bottom Doubler: Same as D){4,2} or Same as B){2,1}??
  J) R,B,D,N : {2,1} D&N cancel each other per <SG8a>
  K) R,B,D,N,D : {2,1} Same as J, extra D,N don’t affect score per previous Q&A
  L) R,B, Dtr, N : ?? do N&D cancel even if being touched (<SG8> superceeds <SG3>)??
  M) R,B, D, Ntb : ?? do N&D cancel even if being touched (<SG8> superceeds <SG3>)??
  N) R,B,Dtr,Ntb : ?? do N&D cancel even if being touched (<SG8> superceeds <SG3>)??
  O) R,B,D,N,Dtr : Same as E,F?? touching non-bottom Doubler doesn’t change previous cancellation???
  P) R,B,Dtr,N,D : Same as L (whatever that is) non-bottom Doubler doesn’t change score??
  Q) R,B,N : {0,0} due to Scoring bullet point 5 definition of Negation barrel
  R) R,B,Ntr : {0,1} <SG3b> , There is no bonus point for blue, or red.
  S) R,B,Ntrtb : Similar to I), do both robots touching Negator score {2,1} or not {0,0}??

Dtrtb or Ntrtb (one object being touched by both red and blue robots) cases
may happen when a robot is attempting to block a goal; particularly when an offensive robot is attempting to score a special against a blocking robot at End-1sec, to attempt to invoke an scoring event.

[Karthik]

What is the score and reasoning for each of these scoring scenarios:
Format key:

• bottom to top, R=Red, B = Blue, D=doubler, N=Negator,
• tr = touched by red robot, tb = touched by blue robot
• {redscore,bluescore} red reasoning, blue reasoning
• restarting enumeration from A, independent of original letters/numbers

A) R : {2,0} 1 + 1bonus

This is correct.

B) R,B : {2,1} 1 + 1bonus, 1 scored

This is correct.

C) R, D : {4,0} ((1 + 1bonus) * Doubler), none scored

This is correct.

D) R,B,D : {4,2} Doubled version of case B)

This is correct.

E) R,B,D,D : {4,2} Same as D) since <SG8b> only closest to bottom counts

This is correct.

F) R,B,D,Dtb : {4,2} Same as D)&E) <SG8b> since touching non-bottom Doubler doesn’t change score ???

This is correct.

G) R,B,Dtr : {2,2} 1+1bonus no doubler due <SG3a>, 1 * Doubler due <SG3a>

This is correct.

H) R,B,Dtr,D : {2,2} Same as G) <SB8b> only closest to bottom Double counts ???

This is correct.

I) R,B,Dtrtb : both red & blue robots touching the bottom Doubler: Same as D){4,2} or Same as B){2,1}??

This goal would be scored Red 2, Blue 1. Since both teams are touching the Doubler, they lose the benefit of it.

J) R,B,D,N : {2,1} D&N cancel each other per <SG8a>

This is correct.

K) R,B,D,N,D : {2,1} Same as J, extra D,N don’t affect score per previous Q&A

This is correct.

L) R,B, Dtr, N : ?? do N&D cancel even if being touched (<SG8> superceeds <SG3>)??

This goal would be scored Red 0, Blue 1. Since Red is touching the Doubler, they would lose the benefit of it. As such, their score is only affected by the Negation, and becomes 0. Blue is affected by both the Doubler and Negation, which cancel each other, hence there score is unchanged.

M) R,B, D, Ntb : ?? do N&D cancel even if being touched (<SG8> superceeds <SG3>)??

This goal would be scored Red 4, Blue 1. Since Blue is touching the Negation, they would lose the benefit of it. As such, Red’s score is not affected by the Negation, only Blue’s is. Red is thus only affected by the Doubler bringing their score up to 4. Blue is affected by both the Doubler and the Negation which cancel each other, leaving their score unchanged at 1.

N) R,B,Dtr,Ntb : ?? do N&D cancel even if being touched (<SG8> superceeds <SG3>)??

This goal would be scored Red 2, Blue 1. Since Red is touching the Doubler they would lose the benefit of it. This means only Blue gets credit for the Doubler. Since Blue is touching the Negation they would lose the benefit of it. This means only Blue’s score get diminished by the Negation. Red’s score is unmodified and remains 2. Blue is affected by both a Doubler and a Negation, which cancel each other, thus their score is unmodified and remains 1.

O) R,B,D,N,Dtr : Same as E,F?? touching non-bottom Doubler doesn’t change previous cancellation???

Correct. The top doubler is irrelevant. The score would be Red 2, Blue 1.

P) R,B,Dtr,N,D : Same as L (whatever that is) non-bottom Doubler doesn’t change score??

This is correct. The top doubler is irrelevant. The score would be Red 0, Blue 1 for the same rationale as L)

Q) R,B,N : {0,0} due to Scoring bullet point 5 definition of Negation barrel

This is correct.

R) R,B,Ntr : {0,1} <SG3b> , There is no bonus point for blue, or red.

This correct. Since Red is touching the Negation, only their score is modified.

S) R,B,Ntrtb : Similar to I), do both robots touching Negator score {2,1} or not {0,0}??

This goal would be scored Red 0, Blue 0. Since both teams are touching the Negation, both teams would only negate their own score. Thus both end up with 0 points.