Answered: Opponent Contacting Alliance Tubes

[penguinfrk]

At what point does a tube of your color interacting with an opponent robot count for no points?

1. If the opponent robot is touching the tube in any manner, it is worth nothing.
2. If the opponent robot is holding the tube (i.e. no contact between the tube and the scoring goal/wall or another tube on it), it is worth nothing.
3. When the opponent removes the tube from the vertical cylinder defined by the goal post and a given distance (either outer radius of tubes or or radius of goal post) from its center, it is worth nothing.

[Karthik]

This answer has been updated in the following post to reflect the new manual edition from 11/17/2010. This answer only remains here as an archive. Please see the post from 11/18/2010 for the correct answer.

@penguinfrk

At what point does a tube of your color interacting with an opponent robot count for no points?

1. If the opponent robot is touching the tube in any manner, it is worth nothing.
2. If the opponent robot is holding the tube (i.e. no contact between the tube and the scoring goal/wall or another tube on it), it is worth nothing.
3. When the opponent removes the tube from the vertical cylinder defined by the goal post and a given distance (either outer radius of tubes or or radius of goal post) from its center, it is worth nothing.

Let’s take a look at the definition of scored:

Scored – A tube is considered scored if it is NOT touching a robot of the same color and it meets ONE of the following two criteria:

• A goalpost passes through the hole in the center of the tube AND the tube is fully below the top of the goalpost.
• The tube is touching another scored tube and not touching any of the foam field tiles.

There is no mention of an opposing robot in this definition, thus a tube will be considered scored as long as it meets one of the two listed criteria, regardless of any contact with an opposing robot. So, in scenarios 1 & 2 the the tube is still legally scored. In scenario 3, the tube would no longer be scored once it no longer meets one of the two criteria from the definition.

[penguinfrk]

By the definition stated:
Let’s say the goalpost held the tubes:
1[red]
2[red]
3[red]
4[blue]

If a blue robot was removing the tubes from the goalpost and in contact with tube 4, then if 1, 2, and 3 are above the goalpost, all 4 tubes are worth nothing because they are not in contact with a tube that is “scored” nor fully below the top of the goal post, correct?

If a blue robot was in contact with the tube 4 lifting the entire stack, but tube 3 is still fully under the goal post (i.e. buzzer rings while descoring is happening), then tubes 1-3 are scored, 4 is not, and the goal is owned by red with 3 tubes (1 and 2 are on top of 3, which is legally scored)?

Another situation:
1[red]
2[blue]
3[blue]

If a blue robot lifts from tube 3, and at the end of the game tubes 2 and 3 are fully underneath the goal post, then tube 2 is legally scored by definition one, and tube 1 is legally scored by definition 2, and the goal is not owned by either alliance (1-1)?

Thanks for the in depth consideration.

[Karthik]

This answer has been updated in the following post to reflect the new manual edition from 11/17/2010. This answer only remains here as an archive. Please see the post from 11/18/2010 for the correct answer.

@penguinfrk

By the definition stated:
Let’s say the goalpost held the tubes:
1[red]
2[red]
3[red]
4[blue]

If a blue robot was removing the tubes from the goalpost and in contact with tube 4, then if 1, 2, and 3 are above the goalpost, all 4 tubes are worth nothing because they are not in contact with a tube that is “scored” nor fully below the top of the goal post, correct?

Correct. The blue tube [4] is not scored because it is in contact with a robot of the same color. The red tubes [1-3] are not scored because they are not fully below the top of the goal post or in contact with another scored tube.

@penguinfrk

If a blue robot was in contact with the tube 4 lifting the entire stack, but tube 3 is still fully under the goal post (i.e. buzzer rings while descoring is happening), then tubes 1-3 are scored, 4 is not, and the goal is owned by red with 3 tubes (1 and 2 are on top of 3, which is legally scored)?

Correct. The blue tube [4] is not scored because it is in contact with a robot of the same color. Red tube [3] is scored because it is fully below the top of the goalpost. Red tubes [1-2] are scored because they are in contact with other scored tubes.

@penguinfrk

Another situation:
1[red]
2[blue]
3[blue]

If a blue robot lifts from tube 3, and at the end of the game tubes 2 and 3 are fully underneath the goal post, then tube 2 is legally scored by definition one, and tube 1 is legally scored by definition 2, and the goal is not owned by either alliance (1-1)?

Correct. Blue tube [3] is not scored because it is in contact with a robot of the same color. Blue tube [2] is scored because it is fully below the top of the goalpost. Red tubes [1] is scored because it is in contact with other scored tubes.

[Karthik]

@penguinfrk

At what point does a tube of your color interacting with an opponent robot count for no points?

1. If the opponent robot is touching the tube in any manner, it is worth nothing.
2. If the opponent robot is holding the tube (i.e. no contact between the tube and the scoring goal/wall or another tube on it), it is worth nothing.
3. When the opponent removes the tube from the vertical cylinder defined by the goal post and a given distance (either outer radius of tubes or or radius of goal post) from its center, it is worth nothing.

Let’s take a look at the new definition of scored:

Scored – A tube is considered to be scored on a goalpost if any part of the tube encircles the goalpost or the projection of the top of the goalpost extended infinitely. If the lip of the movable weighted base is touching a foam tile at the end of the match, the goalpost is not projected. Please see the below images of legally scored tubes and the lip of a movable weighted base.]

There is no mention of an opposing robot in this definition, thus a tube will be considered scored as long as it meets the listed criteria, regardless of any contact with an opposing robot. So, in scenarios 1 & 2 the the tube is still legally scored. In scenario 3, the tube would no longer be scored once it no longer meets the definition.

@penguinfrk

By the definition stated:
Let’s say the goalpost held the tubes:
1[red]
2[red]
3[red]
4[blue]

If a blue robot was removing the tubes from the goalpost and in contact with tube 4, then if 1, 2, and 3 are above the goalpost, all 4 tubes are worth nothing because they are not in contact with a tube that is “scored” nor fully below the top of the goal post, correct?

The new definition of scored does mention contact with other scored tubes or being below the top of the goalpost. Tubes must encircle the goalpost or projection of the goalpost to be considered scored.

@penguinfrk

If a blue robot was in contact with the tube 4 lifting the entire stack, but tube 3 is still fully under the goal post (i.e. buzzer rings while descoring is happening), then tubes 1-3 are scored, 4 is not, and the goal is owned by red with 3 tubes (1 and 2 are on top of 3, which is legally scored)?

Again, this situation no longer is an issue with the new definition of scored. Tubes are scored if they encircle the goalpost or it’s infinite projection and are not touching a robot of the same colour.

@penguinfrk

Another situation:
1[red]
2[blue]
3[blue]

If a blue robot lifts from tube 3, and at the end of the game tubes 2 and 3 are fully underneath the goal post, then tube 2 is legally scored by definition one, and tube 1 is legally scored by definition 2, and the goal is not owned by either alliance (1-1)?

See the above answer.

[penguinfrk]

What does encircle mean? If the axis defined by the post intersects the distance between the inner and outer radius (i.e. a robot is holding it in place above the goal post when power is cut), is it counted? In other words, is “encircle” restricted to the inner circle of the radius, or the outer circle?

Also, does this mean that a robot can be contacting its own colored tube and still have the tube be in scoring position? No longer does the robot have to have released the tube, correct? In other words, points can be scored with tubes without any tube actually touching the wall or the goal posts?

Thanks for the clarifications.

[Karthik]

@penguinfrk

What does encircle mean? If the axis defined by the post intersects the distance between the inner and outer radius (i.e. a robot is holding it in place above the goal post when power is cut), is it counted?

Yes, it would be considered encircled. However, please remember rule <SG3> still applies.

@&lt;SG3&gt;

<SG3> A tube is not considered scored if it is being touched by a robot on an alliance of the same color at the conclusion of either period.

@penguinfrk

Also, does this mean that a robot can be contacting its own colored tube and still have the tube be in scoring position? No longer does the robot have to have released the tube, correct? In other words, points can be scored with tubes without any tube actually touching the wall or the goal posts?

Nope, <SG3> still applies. See above.

@penguinfrk

Thanks for the clarifications.

You’re welcome.