Answered: robot touching robot that extends beyond field perimeter inside edge

There have been a few posts pertaining to elevating robots touching the TOP of the field perimeter:

[LIST]
*]Legal interactions with field perimeter for Elevation originally was submitted prior to the June update to the game rules, and states that the top of the field perimeter is considered to be inside of the Climbing Zone.
*]High Elevated robot supported by field perimeter, but not touching it mentions breaking plane of the field perimeter, but there is nothing in the response clarifying any aspects of robots breaking the plane of field perimeter.
*]Can a robot elevate by lifting itself on the perimeter? discusses how after the June rules update that “High Elevated Robots may not touch the field perimeter.”
[/LIST]

A couple of definitions from the updated version of the Game Manual, with my added emphasis:

Climbing ZoneThe volume formed by the infinite vertical projection of the outer edges of the tape lines and field perimeter bounding the four (4) foam field tiles located in the corners of the field adjacent to the Alliance Stations

High Elevated – A Robot is High Elevated if all of the following criteria are met:

  1. It is touching the other Robot on its Alliance
    **2. The Robot that it is touching (see criteria #1), is entirely within the Climbing Zone
    **3. It is not touching any Field Elements
  2. The entire Robot is completely above the plane parallel to the foam field tiles, formed by the top of the field perimeter. Touching the field perimeter negates a High Elevation.

My Line of Reasoning and Resulting Question:
In the past, the INTERIOR side of the field perimeter defined the field boundary. Continuing with that common sense definition, the “infinite vertical projection of the … field perimeter” portion of the definition of the Climbing Zone would mean that the INTERIOR edge of the field perimeter would define the OUTER edge of the Climbing Zone. And therefore, to meet criterion #2 of High Elevated (“The Robot that it is touching, is entirely within the Climbing Zone”), the robot that the High Elevated robot is touching cannot break the interior edge of the field perimeter, i.e., it cannot be touching the top edge of the field perimeter frame.

Is this a correct interpretation, or can the alliance partner of the High Elevated robot be touching or supported by the top edge of the field perimeter? It seems like the same process for determining questions of support for low elevated robots may be applicable for the robot that the high elevated robot is touching…

Thanks,

Gary

Thanks Karthik!

A quick follow up question. I’m refereeing my first NBN competition on Saturday and went back to review the referee guide this afternoon. I just read the first discussion point and was logging in to the forum to retract my question when I saw your response. Thank you for responding, but now I’m in a bit of a quandary. I thought my logic made sense, and you confirmed that. But this is what the referee guide has to say:

[INDENT]Climbing Zone – The volume formed by the infinite vertical projection of the outer edges of the tape lines and field perimeter bounding the four (4) foam field tiles located in the corners of the field adjacent to the Alliance Stations.
 The Climbing Zone is a three-dimensional volume, not an area like the Loading Zone.
Since it’s defined as the outer edges of the field perimeter, the top of the field perimeter is part of the Climbing Zone[/INDENT]

So I’m not sure how to reconcile the second bullet with the definition of the climbing zone excluding the top of the field perimeter:

[INDENT]The “supporting” Robot must be fully withing the Climbing Zone, which would exclude it from touching the top of the Field Perimeter.
[/INDENT]

Sorry I didn’t notice the note in the referee guide first, but now I’m wondering how we should rule on this??

Thank you for your response, and all that you do for VEX and STEM!

Gary

Sometimes I even get confused. The Climbing Zone is defined by the outer edges of the Field Perimeter, thus the top of the Field Perimeter is in the Climbing Zone, allowing a “supporting” Robot to rest upon it while still meeting the criteria for the definition of Elevated.

Thanks for keeping me on my toes and for volunteering to be a referee.

I guess there are multiple ways to read “the outer edges of the tape lines and field perimeter” in the definition of climbing zone - in one case “the outer edges” is a modifier on “tape lines”, and in another it’s a modifier for both “the tape lines and field perimeter.”

Gotta love the little nuances. Wish I’d remembered the referee manual reference first, then I’d have remember the rule correctly.

Thanks for the ruling - now there’s no ambiguity!

Happy Halloween!

Exactly. We’ll work harder to be a bit more precise in our wording in hopes of minimizing ambiguity!