Cage Bot

Hello everyone. I have a critical question to ask the vex community and would like an answer as soon as possible. We had a competition on December 2nd at Masuk High School in which there was a robot (placed 11th in qualification) with the name “cage bot.” For clarification “cage bot” has a rectangular box that wraps around 2 of their opponent’s mobile goals and captures them so their opponent cannot score them in a zone. On top of that they would move them around for the entire match and when you go to score yellow cones on those mobile goals, they knock it down from the robot and I am not sure if that’s intentional or not. Several other people and I have called it illegal. However, judges and referees did not call them out for possession. That being said, please look at the image and reply whether or not it is illegal. Thank you.
IMG_4176.JPG

Lol that’s pretty illegal.

Not according to this.
https://vexforum.com/t/answered-another-request-for-sg6-clarification-updated/42793/1

That’s not cool, if anything.

Hi there, so this particular design has come up a lot over the forum for good reason it is new and exciting but I know why you would feel its illegal here’s a few official Q and A That is as good as the rulebook since they are on the Q and A
[https://vexforum.com/t/answered-definition-of-grasping-sg6/43019/1)

[https://vexforum.com/t/answered-hoarding-opposing-mobile-goals/41594/1)

[https://vexforum.com/t/answered-dropping-cages-on-goals/41605/1)

So judging from these as long as the mobile goal never leaves the level playing surface while being manipulated by a cage bot it is perfectly legal provided that the cage bot team doesn’t happen to break any other rules in the process

Personally, I feel like this team should be commended for figuring out a new way to play the game within the rules it shows a true understanding of the game and their ingenuity. To be fair nothing said on this thread is official and therefore cannot be used as a reason to disqualify a team if you want an official ruling on this post it on the Q and A or contact your local REC representative.

However this is possessing the mobile goals and hoarding them.

Both of which are legal.

To be clear, there is no definition for “possessing” a mobile goal. It’s not defined, therefor not prohibited. Hoarding is specifically allowed.

The second Link in My post links to a Q/A that states that hoarding opposing mobile goals is legal, also possession has multiple meanings Possession only means you control the movement of an object, the reason the design is legal is that the mobile goals are loosely being manipulated inside of the end effector they are not being clamped the true meaning of the word is important some adjectives like clamp or pinch also describe what is illegal in the terms of SG6 so again this robot is completely legal

it is “allowed” but it is a pretty scummy thing to do. And in qualifiers you could get DQ’d by a ref who interprets SG6 slightly different .

It not “scummy”; its good strategy. Just because it makes your robot bad, doesn’t mean its scummy. It’s a strategy open to you as well, so its not even unfair. There also isn’t a “different” interpretation, there is only the correct interpretation and the incorrect interpretation. The idea that it is a bad strategy because a ref could incorrectly interpret a rule is also ridiculous, because you can always show a ref the rule book. If the ref doesn’t know the rules, they shouldn’t be a ref.

Even if this strategy seems mean, it’s not effective. You’re only stopping your opponent from getting about ten points, and even the crappiest external stacker can make that up.

That’s not my calculation. I’m getting 2 mobile goals in the 10 point + possibly 1 high stack + the inability to stack on two of the mobile goals. Assuming that robots can stack 12 cones per mobile goal that’s 10+10+5+1222 = 73 points, which is actually pretty good, disregarding that the pictured robot could obviously score mobile goals.

I’m curious how you get to only denying 10 points? I’d say at least 20… those 2 mogos could be put into the 10 point zone. Then there would be lost points for the time taken to drive cones, one at a time, to the 2 mogos or the stationary goal you are left with to score on

Oh, it can do two. I thought it could do one. Well, you can still make up twenty points.

What you can do is use hinges that are supported on one side but not the other on the bottom of the mg intake where the mg sits. That way you can just reach into the cage, snap in the mg, and pull out.

Could you clarify what you mean by make up 20 points.

Score the 20 points that that robot is costing you.

you can still stack on the caged mobile goals

Yes. But not internally.

You can, but the OP said "On top of that they would move them around for the entire match and when you go to score yellow cones on those mobile goals, they knock it down from the robot and I am not sure if that’s intentional or not. "

I’m actually a little confused about the “knock it down from the robot” part because I didn’t think you could do that