Change Up Possession Limit

I see that we can only hold three balls of the OPPOSING alliance color, however, is there a possession limit on how many balls of your OWN color you can hold?

No, there are several people asking this question. The answer is that there is no limit

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Just a reminder about VEX Rules. If it doesn’t explicitly call it out, then it’s not limited. So while they state in SG8 about the other teams balls, there is no mention of how many you can hold. Because there is no mention, there is no limit.

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“The intent of this rule is to prohibit each Robot from keeping more than 3 of the opposing Balls from being used by the opposing Alliance. It is anticipated that two Robots from the same Alliance will work together to Possess the opposing Alliance’s Balls. When those Robots do this, as long as they are not Possessing more than 6 of the Opposing Alliance’s Balls in total, and each Robot is not carrying or controlling more than 3 Balls, these Robots are not in violation of SG8” Is the bolded part refering to the opposing alliances’s balls or balls in general?

If nothing is stated, it becomes a vagueness for new referees and teams which is not fair for early season competitions, so I really do believe that posession limit (which is an extremely important aspect for all teams to build their robot around) should be explicitly stated so we don’t have the reasoning of “If it doesn’t exist, we can take advantage of x and y as it is our ‘common sense’,” then realizing your robot loses for misinterpreting the absence of a rule.

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The wording on the 2nd definition of “Possession” seems awkward:

The Robot is blocking the opposing Robot’s access to Balls that are located between Goals along
the field perimeter. Blocking access to Balls is considered Possessing those Balls only if the
opposing Robot is attempting to make contact with those Balls from close range and those Balls
are at least partially within the width of the Goals between the Goals.

So, it does seem, that an Alliance could wall off a substantial portion of the field and both opposing robots, and, so long as no more than 6 of the opposing Alliance’s balls are near the perimeter and unscored (since Scored Balls cannot be Possessed), that would be legal.

So if I want to drop off a wall in the corner to block opposing robots from getting to the balls, then it got to be large enough to leave about 8" between balls and the goal…

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Hi. If you are carrying 3 opposite balls and keep it through the whole match. R u still allow to pick some more opposite balls but will drop in the goal after. I saw this in the manual but just want to make sure.

I actually disagree.
In the earlier seasons, the rules were even… broader.
The more rules that are explicitly put down, the more restrictive it is.

I think the current approach of as long as it is not stated, means it is acceptable is definitely a better approach to everything must be written down, so that i will know what to build.

You don’t want rules to be too restrictive or to list down all the do’s and dont’s. Else… you will really see only one way to solve the problem.

and i don’t see how fairness comes into play - it is not the “rules” fault if a team didn’t manage to think out of the box or maybe see the problem from certain angle.

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@DRow
is there anyone at vex that can answer this question with a clear answer or can you give us your interpretation of the possession rule because I completely agree that a robot design can be based solely around the possession rule
ty
James C
2020-2021 Mentor

Drow is not in the GDC ( I don’t think the students’ petition work… :stuck_out_tongue: ).

but which part of the possession rule are you confused with?

i really thought it is pretty crystal clear in the rules.

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I know DRow is not part of the gdc but he a coworker and I was hoping he could talk to them about it
also I dont think Im confused but some people on here are and I would just like to set it straight before some teams start building so it is clear with designs and strategy’s

Then I wouldn’t worry too much about it.
The team should discuss all these through and even with their mentors if they are still not sure.
If their discussions and rigorous enough, most of all these will be ironed out.

In any case, all these are part of designs and strategy iterations.
Nobody gets everything right at one go, eg. It is so often that after 1 competition, the team will be saying - I should have thought of this and that.

Maybe it is just not my style that we should put everything on a plate for the students.
It a a good opportunity to teach the students that the real world is rarely that crystal clear. And get them to “hack” the game :slight_smile:

The official q&a will be opened in… Jul/Aug ?

PS… think we might never have our 1st wallbot (2W) if the rules were so explicit in what they could and could not do back then.

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This 1000 times. As Mike Tyson once said, “Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth”. The engineering process is one of iteration and learning through failure.

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somebody please thank this guy. he’s so correct; the only way you can learn is through failing.

I don’t think I can like this enough

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