Hi. Most of you probably know me already as someone who posts somewhat frequently on the forums, and while I’m usually memeing or messing around, I like to think I actually contribute to the community here and there. So, hopefully this thread will represent some of that. I made this topic to hear what everyone else has thought of Change Up so far now that it’s been out of a little while. I understand that many of us were quite frustrated with Change Up as a game when it was first released, and I’m pretty curious if people have changed their minds just as I have now that we’ve dipped our toes in the water. While I doubt many (if not all) of us have not had our first competition yet due to the abnormal circumstances we face this season, I wanted to hear people’s opinions on the different design challenges faced in the game.
Hopefully this thread will serve to give the GDC the feedback they need to continue making challenging design problems for future games.
I’ll start it off- in what I’ve experienced so far this year, the challenge of sorting colored balls has been pretty enticing. We’ve seen several brilliant mechanisms from Taran, xenon, and others, and I’m hopeful that we will still see even more innovation in the future as the season progresses.
Descoring has also been an interesting challenge. Having enough torque to get the balls out of the goals while still having the speed needed to cycle quickly has been a struggle for some teams, and I’m glad that were facing an upcoming period of intake tuning for everyone as people start to realize that there are faster ways to do this
At first, I wasn’t too excited about this game. After seeing how much progress teams have made, it should be an exciting year in some areas. Especially signature events, but whether they may happen under our circumstances is a different topic. This being a game that relies on strategy and back and forth scoring should bring some exciting moments this season. I am hoping to see some good defense plays like 62A in ITZ. So far our team has overcome most of the challenges this season and I’d like to see what others have designed.
This year’s game idea isn’t bad, it’s just the cylinder game pieces that are kinda bad. Their structure will have a lot of variance at different competitions, which is something I am kind of scared about. I wish there was another task such as an endgame climb. It would’ve been cool to see the nbn buddy climb in this game, or even climbing on the corner cylinders. Overall, the game has grown on me, and is a 6/10.
At first I was pretty disappointed by change up. while it was frustrating at times, I enjoyed the difficult engineering challenges of tower takeover, and change up just seemed too easy. But as the season has progressed, I’m liking it more and more as I realize the simplicity of the game allows for many opportunities for new and interesting mechanisms, and just for more variation than last season. I feel that because tower takeover had such a difficult engineering challenge, only one type of robot was competitive. But change up feels like it will be more like turning point, where the way robots scored was mostly the same, but the robots themselves had variation. I also like how the gdc has listened to our feedback/complaints around the skills and the ball locking and has come up with good solutions for both issues instead of just ignoring them.
So I’d say my opinion on this game has improved significantly over the past few months, and I really hope I get the chance to compete this season because I do think the game will be fun to play. fast paced, varied robots, lots of opportunities for cool gadgets, and the ease of the challenge means that newer teams can actually have some degree of success, unlike TT.
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To me the game has a low bar of entry for newer teams, but also a very high ceiling for more experienced one, and that combined with the unique engineering opportunities the game presents to us makes it a good game imo.
It’s definitely still not a great game for spectators who don’t have a solid understanding of how the game works. I think I would need to go to a competition to decide whether or not I personally like the game though.
Initially change up seemed to be a huge disappointment, as design and build complexity appeared to be lacking relatively to prior seasons. However as time has progressed, we have seen that there are various mechanisms that will be needed for a team to compete at a high level; whether it be the various forms of trap doors, hood releasing, or ratchets. Additionally I think this years game places a huge emphasis on the importance of programming. So while it may not be a game where many rebuilds will take place, we will see top tier teams differentiate themselves through auton and programming skills. Teams will be forced to find ways beyond just their build to succeed, which I think is a nice change from prior seasons.
The general consensus here is “I didn’t like it at first, but it’s grown on me.” and I think that’s to be expected. Every year, you get used to the game, and enjoy it over time. When the new game arrives, it’s so foreign and different from what you’re used to that it seems odd or disappointing at first, but you grow to enjoy the new game every season.
That’s facts, I remember a lot of people disliking tt for how poorly rulings (like the one about the ipz) were carried out in the qna’s but looking back Ive noticed that people seem to be realizing they really enjoyed tt because of the skills challenge, and I think that we all miss that to an extent, even though the matches themselves were a bit of a mess
Honestly, at first, I didn’t like how it was too similar to previous games and how low the bar was for skills. But now, like many people have said, Change Up has kind of grown on me. I am very interested in how the auton WP will affect rankings and scouting this year.
As most people are saying, I didn’t really like this game at first, but I think a little better of it now. It is still definitely not one of my favorites, but doesn’t seem as bad.
Things I like: Easy for new teams, but still plenty of challenges for more experienced teams (unlike last year); The greater emphasis on autonomous, especially given how hard autonomous will be with balls rolling around and stuff; the strategic complexity and viability of defensive robots; the robot designs in general are interesting this year
Things I dislike: This game is not going to be very good if you are spectator; there is still a lot of design convergence, though it is not as bad as ITZ or TT
Going against the tide, I really liked change up at first, but as time has passed its quickly become one of my least favorite games. Its plagued with issues and just doesnt have any hope of ever matching the way Tower Takeover felt. I’ve talked a lot with my friend and mentor @Arrash, and we’ve both pretty much agreed that this game feels rushed and, while I like it better than Starstruck, it could be so much better if it had an endgame like Turning Point. In fact, I think a turning point style fighting endgame is one of the things that makes some swing games really fun.
I would argue that an endgame mechanic wouldn’t add to the overall game here because if you watch many of the high level TP matches you will see that the platforms are often ignored in favor of trying to steal the flags or defend them until the last second. The whole game is the endgame, and if there was another element it would probably be ignored because of teams trying to take the middle goal or something similar.
I’m not sure if people are suggesting this because they actually want some sort of endgame, or if it more has to do with just making the game more complex and therefore making the challenge harder.
it would be hard to have an endgame that doesn’t completely determine the match in lower level matches while still being important to do in higher levels of play. the platforms in tp would basically determine the match early season and were largely ignored at the highest levels.
I feel like the idea behind the game is good, but it needs something else added in order to make it more interesting. As is every match is going to look to similar.
While it’s certainly not my favorite game I don’t think it’s bad, just a bit lacking in challenge.
Was that an issue? I never thought that this was bad. It meant smaller teams weren’t useless as alliance partners, but better drivers were rewarded with a the advantage of taking the flags back during the endgame. Honestly in TP the platform was never phased out, you just needed to time the park better and have strong communication with your partner.
Change Up seems a little boring to me, because there are two different field elements: goals and balls. In turning point there was: scoring flags, flipping caps, putting caps on posts, and best of all the fighting over the platforms. This game was much more exciting to watch and play, but in VEX Change Up it will just be watching 4 robots cycling through balls for 2minutes.
I know simplifying thoughts to a number is a bit too much for a complicated task, but on a scale of 1-10, how would you rate this game?
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Summary
For reference, a poll was made on launch day, and the current average with 334 votes is 5.62.
Personally, the game’s rough start has left a bad taste in my mouth, specifically ball locking and driver skills getting cleared in a week, and although the game is alright, I fear that something else gamebreaking will be discovered.
The GDC in the past couple of years stated that they would evaluate items like Autonomous Bonus and endgame elements to see if points needed to be adjusted for the World Championships. If there were an endgame element, I’d expect that to be in use here.
A sadistic part of me wanted people to not be able to contact or score in the center goal for the first half of the match, since that is objectively the most important goal in the game.