Before I start, I would like to state that I have taken a look at the rule book and it doesn’t appear that the questions I am asking are listed in the rule book, I, of course, could be wrong.
First Question
In the case where autonomous is miscounted, what are the rules and regulations about correcting that mistake (after autonomous). During a recent competition, this had happened to my team and many others multiple times and I would like to get a definite answer.
Second Question
I am aware of alliance advantages. In which, a higher seed team can force the lower seed team to place their robots in first during the elim rounds. In a scenario in which the higher seed team puts their robot first (on accident), is it legal for that team to take their robot out after being placed in? Due to the lower seed alliance placing their robot in. Similar to a chess game, can you take a robot off the field during elimination rounds after you placed it in.
If you think the referee miscounted something, ask why he or she scored it a particular way, and if the explanation doesn’t seem right to you, you make an appeal to the head referee. I’d also check the official Q&A here on the forums to see if the situation has been covered in a thread there, and if it is, and Karthik says the referee should not have counted the object the way the referee did, show the thread to the referee, because they have to obey rulings from the Game Design Committee.
I suppose, although I’m not sure, that once the robot’s placed on the field, it can’t be taken off.
@Micheal, what does it mean. If in a match one of the teams robot touches the field of the other side beyond the white line, would that mean that team is disqualified for that match, and the other team automatically wins ?
Let’s say that red wins 50-0, but at the end, a red robot is across the line. There’s no way that that robot could have scored 26 points (enough to lose) by crossing the fence, and so the red team wins anyway.
Another example, red wins 26-25, and is across the line. It’s certainly conceivable that the red robot could have scored a star by crossing the line, affecting the outcome of the match. Thus, the red team would be DQ’ed.
Keep in mind that all of this is at the discretion of the referees/
ty, in this case it was a close call of 20-23, however the last few stars the robot pushed only by crossing the
the white line much ahead, as is seen in a video that was captured. Even after this incident the robot went ahead to score few more. So in the even the event manager had seen this and the team DQ’ed it would have been a win for the other team, since this happened mid-way in the game. Also in the video it is seen that the team that was moving into the other teams field, was actually hindering the opponent teams movement (though not intentionally). This incident was caught on camera, but the refree refused to see the video. How is it that a vedio is never used? is there no other way to get them , all we were told is mistakes happen. But then someone needs to do something…
Then what happens when the team does not get DQ’ed for moving into the other field for a good amount of the game, and no one does anything. Are rules subjective to refree ? or the refree bound by the rules of the game?, Because it can be quite disheartening… to see it in black and white but the refree gives it other way… Not in the right spirit of the game.
That is not how I would have ruled it at the tournaments I have reffed. When I am reffing, I am not reffing what may have happened, it is what happened. If I see a team cross the line twice scoring a star each time and they win by one then it is a Dq.
If they could have Theoretically been crossing the line a lot I would not call it unless another ref or I saw those other times happen.
Too sad, we did not have a refree that took a note of it, nor did they consider when we reappealed…
We were just told mistakes happen. What we need is some kind of certification for both the game scorer as well as refree so they are well aware of the game rules, so teams like us do not have to go through this.
Thank you AppleDavidJeans! My scenario last saturday was that the referee for my match was the referee. This had happened two times during the competition. The first time it happened I appealed to the referee with no proof so it was denied, and the second time I had proof (in form of a video) but I had also appealed during autonomous. I had started to re-count the scores but the announcer had disregarded my appeal/question and had started the driver control period. I would be fine with this if it was not match affecting, but sadly it was. We had tied one match and lost the other due to this, and had also affected our ranking due to AP (Autonomous Points).
On top of that, when I said placing the robot I meant at the beginning of the match when you place the robot in the either red or blue side of the field. If the higher seed alliance placed in their robots first (on accident). Could they take one or both of their robots back out? Or, are there robots set in stone.
This thread has many concerning questions, I hope Karthik could take a look at it so we can all be at rest.
Was this during the eliminations or qualifying rounds? I think you are misunderstanding what happens with a DQ in the elimination. If a team is DQed during qualifications, only that team gets a zero for the match. The other team on the alliance is awarded the final score. So even if your opponent had gotten DQed, the match would not have been awarded to you. Now, if it had happened during eliminations, if one team gets DQed the entire alliance gets DQed.
Edited: Also, a match is not stopped in the case of a DQ (which I think you are assuming in the quote above). The match continues and a DQ is announced after the match ends. So all the scoring that took place in the match you are describing, still would have taken place. There are only a few, very aggregious reasons that a team will be forced by the refs to put their controllers down and stop during a match. I have never seen it in person, but have seen a video where it happened.
Sorry this happened to you, I know it is very frustrating. We have found that our teams must point out discrepancies right then and there - after the field is cleared, there is no way of going back and changing what happened. Plus, like others point out, the refs in Vex do not review video (it is stated explicitly in the rules).
The refs are human like everyone else and sometimes mistakes are made (our teams have been on the losing end of mistakes - and I know it stings). I would encourage you to get some adults from your team to train and volunteer as refs. This is all volunteer!
Don’t let this get you down! Good luck in the future!!
Great response! I am not fighting what you said, but in many cases the judge or referee at a competition makes the same mistake multiple times regardless of the previous outcome, and if the referee isn’t following a certain rule it could affect the competition as a whole. I lost the tournament due to this.
If you really think there is an issue with a particular rule not being followed in your area, I recommend contacting the tournament organizer and your RECF representative. Perhaps some additional training is needed for refs.
