Sorry, I’m a bit confused on what the problem was with the display? Was it too close to the field?
@Sirchiggins101 hes complaining that it was too close, even though it was place right
When you were having issues with the field did you ever look at the led lights on the field control towers if so what color were they?
As has been pointed out, the location of the monitor was not at fault. Many events use the field monitor bracket which directly attaches the monitor to the field wall itself. Therefore, the location of the monitor a little farther away from the field as they were is not an issue. And therefore, your point about removing clutter (i.e., the field monitor) is invalid.
Even if true for the tournaments you have attended, it is certainly not true for all. The location of the field monitors was perfectly in the rules.
I have to admit that I did not see the match in question. However, there is nothing in the rules that deals with where a scoring object would have landed. A scoring object that leaves the field is placed back on the field from the same zone that it last touched the field. That means if a robot drops an object off of the field, the object is placed in the zone where the robot was located. I am not sure how the computer’s position could have effected the cube, in any way, when taking into account the proper rule.
It seems to me that the referees were not acknowledging as “mistake” as much as trying to placate the complaining team.
Two points here. One, although it is possible that there was equipment that was faulty, in my experience as an Event Partner for 13 years, that is rare. Although, that it happened more on one field than the other might lend some validity to your claim, I would like to have seen whether that was true or merely perception. Two, I understand the frustration with the NO video evidence rule. However, if video evidence were allowed, it would possibly double the length of events as every team who felt wronged in some way would be pulling out their video to attempt to prove their point slowing down the event and on the occasion that a replay would be warranted, drastically slowing down the event.
If I have mis-characterized any of your points, please feel free to correct me. I did not see the match in question, nor did I see the alleged field issues, so I am merely commenting on what you have stated.
As an adult, event partner, coach and mentor, I look at it in a different way. I too had some issues with certain things that happened but had nothing to do with CREATE itself. As an adult I know that this is not the right place to vent or inform on certain things. Just because someone has the right to say things does not mean it is right to do it nor is it the smart thing to do at times. That being said… The tipping…
How can you prove intent? If both robots are going at it, crap happens. It happened to my teams, but I have trained them to deal with it since it is part of the game.
Refs not calling it the way you want. As an EP that runs some fairly sizable tournaments for the area, I try to run it as fair as possible at all times. However it is extremely hard to stop and deal with every situation. You have to have the rules in mind and do the best you can as a ref or judge without putting your own personal interpretations into play. The rules are the rules, but intent in the tipping is the key. How do you prove it? You can’t stop the tournament. It just happens! it is an offensive game for sure and if defense is the mode a team is in then you are at a disadvantage in the rules themselves. The rules favor offensive plays and teams. It is stated as well.
On the 2 robots failing to move or stop moving on one side. It could have been equipment, but I have had this happen where any number of things happen to cause it. I have the exact situation happen at a tournament I ran and it would up being cable plugs not being seated correctly in the controller due to 2 tabs missing that held them in correctly. There was nothing I could do to fix it. It was caused by handling the controllers to rough or pulling cables out violently. Other times the main culprit its the 9v battery. The best way to prevent this is prepare prepare prepare. If other robots are moving at the time, you have to look at your own equipment as well as the field switches. I recall seeing that match I believe and it worked perfectly before and after. I am not saying you or they are at fault, but why accuse when nobody can pin it down as to what caused it? It could have been many things.
Personally the only thing I think I could fuss about was the difference in the traction on the fields with the static spray. Even then it is a matter of what is best. In our area we don’t use it because we don’t have those problems. We just deal with it, adapt, and overcome the best we can.
Our big issues had to do with teams throwing matches in the eliminations so I cannot fuss about CREATE at all. I run events so I know how hard it is. I think overall it ran well. Matches were on time and overall it seemed like the rules were followed in the HS division. I had 4 teams there so there were plenty of times to watch for violations. My advice is to write them a letter informing them of the problems and offer solutions. It does no good to complain without a solution. In my opinion you get more respect from the EP’s and others by doing things the proper way. Then if all else fails, the choice to return is yours.
Just my opinion
To answer your first question, they set up the field differently every time and the monitor on top of the box was not centered. The stars on the field had some odd spacings sometimes and caused some autons to function strangely.
To answer your second question, they were all full disconnects, where every robot on the field stopped moving and every controller started flashing. (Not the low battery flash). It wasn’t any fault of the robot because it would be almost impossible for all of the robots to freeze at the exact same time because of the same issue.
I never actually called out the team for tipping, I just said they did. I know it could have gone either way but I wasn’t satisfied with the way the equipment functioned during that period because after I tipped, I could not get up because of the disconnect problems that me and my ally experienced.
The brackets are the standard things to use to mount the monitors, and the monitor could not be seen very well by 21246G’s alliance. The container it was on had most of its area on Top Secret’s Side. The ref I spoke to said that the container needed to be perfectly centered.
I never looked at the control tower during play, so I can’t provide an answer, but the robots stopped and out controllers started flashing.
The referee himself said that the container was supposed to be perfectly centered. I’m not sure if you were at the tournament or just not at the field or you did not notice that inconsistency, but that container was leaning more towards Top Secret’s Side.
I am not clear how the monitor being centered or not effected play, other than making it difficult for one alliance to properly see the time remaining. It should have made no difference as far as scoring goes at all.
It prevented a cube from being properly placed back onto the field because of its clutter. It prevented a clear call on game piece possession from being made.
Please describe how it prevented a cube from being placed properly. In all of your descriptions so far, I don’t have a clear picture of how that is possible. The field timer is not in the field of play, any object that it would have blocked would also be out of the field of play. I would appreciate more detail about the situation, because right now I have no idea of how the “clutter” affected possession.
I’m pretty sure I went over the clutter in the original rant, so please read it again to see if you can pick up details I left out of the reply.
Your controller flashing has nothing to do with the control tower or field control because if the field dies game light will turn off or turn orange, it doesnt flash and the field control software cant stop your robot unless its disabled and its quite clear when its disabled because the game light goes orange it doesnt flash.
In my opinion this has nothing to do with an incorrect placement of the monitor. This, if anything, was just a mistake made by the officials in charge of the game. If the cube had been place on the other side would you still complain about the monitor?
They continually asked for people to turn off hot spots throughout the event, in green division they were going as far as naming off the hotspots (Jim’s Iphone) and asking people to turn them off . Field errors were likely caused by these. I’ve seen strong 2.4hz signals interfere with vex net connections, when we were flying one of the Mavic Pros in out school the student’s robot would cut out every few seconds. I don’t think it was an equipment failure, but inconsiderate audience members. All of which isn’t the EP’s fault.
You posted this as a description. However, It would be nice to know who was red and who was blue. Giving the teams’ name and numbers is not very helpful when trying to get a picture of what happened. When the cube slid out of the claw and collided with the monitor did it leave the field? Or did it fall onto one side or the other? Your explanation is very difficult to follow. So I must repeat my question, exactly how did the monitor placement effect the placement of the scoring object?
It seems like much of the problems you’re describing are common occurrences that happen at every Vex Tournament. Perhaps some of these issues could have been resolved by nicely asking the volunteers or referees. Remember that they are only human, and have so much to do that day and may not notice small details that are off.
As far as this “clutter” goes, the containers the displays were placed on were there to prevent displays from being damaged from the robots due to its close proximity to the fence and area of scoring. It’s widely considered to be an acceptable placement for the monitor. I would certainly not consider it excessive clutter or a problem.
Exactly thats why Worlds has had the no wifi rule and are very strict about because it can mess with vexnet also thats why most places with tablet scoring run the sever on a 5ghz network to prevent interference.