Cubes on Opponents Skyrise

I know you are not allowed to touch/interfere with the construction of a Skyrise, but if you avoid touching, are you allowed to score cubes on the opponents skyrise? The animation says that you can score them on your alliance’s skyrise, but my read of the manual didn’t yield anything that ruled out 4pts for scoring using their skyrise.

I should have read the definition of scored a bit closer

So to adjust my question, can you place your cubes on their skyrise to keep them from scoring? This assumes that you do not contact their skyrise with your robot, or touch any of their tiles, or a robot that is completely within their tile.

According to my interpretation, without violating any SG9 rules, yes you can, although it will be difficult not violating the indirect contact rule. If you can guarantee that the cube you are holding does not touch the skyrise tower as you score it, which I don’t think is possible, you may do this. But I don’t see a reason for doing that. In skills you are only allowed to build skyrise on your side.

In my opinion, the intent of SG9 is to protect skyrise towers. If you are operating your robot to approach the opposing skyrise tower, and making such close movements regarding to the tower, a normal person would assume that your attempt is to destroy the opposing skyrise tower.

I wondered the same thing and also didn’t see anything against it in the rules, but again, the reveal video said otherwise.

The other thing I wondered though was that the descoring rules say you cannot descore cubes from posts.
<SG6> Robots are not permitted to remove any Cubes that are Scored on a Post unless the Cubes are
a. Partially above the top of the Post
b. Above the defined normal capacity of the Post.

It says nothing about removing cubes from the skyrise.
Assuming you followed all of:
<SG9> Robots may not interfere with an opposing Alliance’s Building of Skyrise Sections in any way. The
following actions are all illegal.
a) Contacting an opponent’s Autoloader and/or contents. (See Figure 23)
b) Contacting an opponent’s Skyrise Base and/or Skyrise. (See Figure 23)
c) Contacting an opponent’s Alliance Starting Tile or the grey foam field tile between the two
Alliance Starting Tiles and located in the corner of the field. (See Figures 24-25)
d) Contacting an opponent’s Robot that is contacting the foam field tiles mentioned in c) and not
contacting any other foam field tiles. (See Figure 26)
e) Contacting any Scoring Objects that are contacting the foam field tiles mentioned in c) and
not contacting any other foam field tiles.
Please note that both direct contact (e.g. Robot making contact) and indirect contact (e.g. Robot
contacting a Scoring Object that makes contact) are considered violations of the above listed clauses

The way I see it, it would be theoretically possible to descore the opposition skyrise cubes if the cubes didn’t touch the skyrise.

Theoretical is the word. I don’t see a giant incentive behind doing such delicate and dangeous task. If you can do this, I am pretty sure that building skyrise tower is much easier for you.

Pretty sure if you make any attempt to interact with their skyrise in any way, you are going to get yourself DQed.

You will be contacting a scoring object, and that scoring object will be making contact. Therefore illegal.

EDIT: Technically, yes, if it never makes contact with the Skyrise and at no point does either opposing robot touch you and everything is perfect it’s not illegal. Technically.

Both valid points . I was just pointing out something I noticed, not something I was intending on attempting.

I was aware of this rule, and said that any cube(s) removed would not be able to touch the skyrise

Putting your cubes on their skyrise doesn’t help you.
Would get 2 points for putting it on the normal goals and they score 2 points for putting cube on normal goal. 2 +2 =4. Plus you lose the chance of owning goals and they directly gain that chance.

I wouldn’t take the chance. All you opponent would have to do is push you From the back and your DQeq.

I agree, it is risky, but you shouldn’t be DQ’d if they push you into the skyrise:

so, it could actually get them DQ’d not you in this case. However, the chances of you making an error and getting DQ’d are quite high

Pushing you away from their skyrise while you’re trying to drop a game object on it is not an attempt to get you DQed, it’s an attempt by them to stop you from scoring on your Skyrise and thus preventing them from scoring four points. So, if they push you away, they’re not getting DQed, you are.

The intent of that rule is that you don’t build a robot that drags your opponent back to your starting tile and forces a DQ.

Anything intentional that involves contact between you and their skyrise will get you DQd. Descoring from their skyrise will get you DQd. Placing your scoring object on their skyrise will get you DQd if your scoring object touches both you and the skyrise at the same time. If your opponent pushes you onto their tiles or skyrise you will be DQd for preventing them from scoring, even if they are pushing you on purpose. This game is built around the fact that robots are supposed to score, not prevent scoring. If you build a robot solely for the purpose of blocking/descoring you will not get very far. Attempting to put your opponent at a disadvantage in any way will lead to a disqualification most of the time. Personally, I think this removed a lot of the fun VEX had, but the rules are the rules, and sometimes referees will disqualify you even if you aren’t violating the rules, but just because it seems like you are. :frowning:

You went too far with that. Saying that any attempt to descore or block will get you DQed is definitely false. Wallbots are still legal and you can still descore and block off of the posts. They just protected one corner of the field because it would be crowded and annoying otherwise.

The problem with saying “well if you don’t do X then you know you aren’t breaking the rules” is that sometimes X is actually a good strategy that helps you win. It’s important for rules to be clear and consistently applied.

Teams win by pushing the limits in all aspects of the competition - not just the limits of themselves and their robots but also sometimes the rules. There’s a reason Green Egg Robotics (and many other top teams) had Robot Skills runs which involved “dribbling” buckyballs while holding three in their intake. In the end GER won Robot Skills by one point. Dribbling the two middle zone preloads was a legal action, and thankfully the ref who supervised this run knew that, but GER wouldn’t be World Champions if they had heeded the advice of people who said to be on the safe side by never manipulating more than three objects.

Im going to have to agree, pushing the limits has always been the strategy used to win, not only pushing the rule limits, but also the limitations we think of, suck as GER picking up the movable goals in Round Up… you cant limit your thinking right now. If you were to ask Karthik his question and he were to issue an explicit ban on descoring of the Skyrise then this would become a no longer viable strategy.

It may be a strong strategy that would offer a really big point gain were it legal, but there’s two problems. First, no way your opponents are letting you near their skyrise. And second, the moment they TOUCH you while they are in their corner even a little bit, you are going to get DQed.

Yeah I’m inclined to agree. WAY to easy to get DQ’ed. But of course I like Dairy Queen :stuck_out_tongue:

This is probably going to get clarified later on in the season… but in any case, I guess you could score your opponent’s cubes on your own skyrise, getting you more SPs if you wanted them.

Yeah right now it’s purely speculation. I’m just gonna wait for it to get officially clarified.