# Descoring Towers

Just wondering, is the only way to descore towers by taking the cube out? Can your bot touch the scored cube or can you place another cube on top of the scored cube to nullify or is the only way to descore a tower is by physically removing the cube from the scored position?

Specifically, take a look at the definition of Placed:

Placed - A Cube status. A Cube is considered Placed in a Tower at the end of a Match if any part of it is breaking the plane defined by a given Towerâ€™s Placing Line.

Note: Only one (1) Cube can be Placed in each Tower. If multiple Cubes meet the definition of Placed for a single Tower, then neither one is considered Placed.

5 Likes

Yes but because it says nothing about its status when a robot is in contact with it, do we assume it is scored when touched by a bot or no? Because following that logic, a robot could still have complete hold of a cube but still have it go under the placing line and it would count.

If the game manual does not specify that contact with a robot invalidates the Placed status of a Cube, then contact with a robot does not invalidate the Placed status of a Cube.

If the GDC had to list every possible condition for every rule/definition, the game manual would be infinitely long. Thus, if a condition is not included, that means the rule/definition in question does not depend on that condition.

8 Likes

https://www.robotevents.com/VRC/2019-2020/QA/390

2 Likes

To summarize:
If cube is by itself in tower, scored.
If robot is touching cube in tower, still scored.
If cube has another cube on top of it without support of robot, not scored.
If cube has another cube touching it, but not flush with it, still scored.

3 Likes

I was about to ask about something like this that came up last night a league but I saw this first. Our situation was that red had a stack in the alliance goal (non-protected). As they were backing off in the last 5 seconds the blue robot started pushing them back into the stack as to de-score the stack by having them touch it. After it was over with, the other ref and I discussed it and looked in the rules. SG3 part G says - Cause a Cube which is Placed in the opposing Alliance
Tower to no longer meet the definition of Placed (i.e.
â€śremove it from the Alliance Towerâ€ť).
SG 3 F says - Cause Scored Cubes within the opponentâ€™s Protected Zone
to no longer meet the definition of Scored (i.e. â€śknock over
their stackâ€ť).
Now it gives an example, but technically the situation we had kind of meets this SG 3 G rule. F is only in the protected zone. We were on the fence and went on the side of offense and did not call it.

What are the thoughts of the hive?

This is a confusing situation. Causing the cubes to be descored was purposeful, but it wasnâ€™t them directly, it was the red allianceâ€™s robot, which makes this even more confusing. If I were a ref I would say legal, mostly because it wasnâ€™t direct and the blue alliance wasnâ€™t touching the tower, and also because in the game manual, it says that refs will tend to err on the offensive side. That is really confusing.

2 Likes

â€śIf cube has another cube on top of it without support of robot, not scored.â€ť

I disagree. The rule states that if there are two cubes (in a tower) that are both SCORED, then neither are scored. That means that somehow, someone was able to place two cubes in such a way that both cubes have a portion that extends below the scoring line. Difficult, if not impossible.

3 Likes

Yes but @JustARedneckEngineer is saying if one cube is flush and scored and the other is on top but not scored.

There is the inner and outer protected zone. The non-protected alliance goal (if I remember correctly) is the inner protected zone without the outer zone around it. If any action by an opposing robot causes cubes to be descored in either zone, it should be an automatic DQ.

This is how I have seen the rules be interpreted, am I right?

3 Likes

That is how I am seeing it. I may have worded it incorrectly up top, but if match affecting then I think it would be a DQ. I see it is the defense is forcing you to touch and de-score a cube.
In our case the red robot had been pushed into their stack, was touching the lowest cube in a 7 or 8 high stack, and the blue was pushing them in for that reason in the last few seconds. This was in the non protected zone. It is a confusing area for sure.

I

This thread seems to be diverging into confusion as a result of incorrect terminology used in posts #1 and #6 and propagated by posts #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, and #12.

OP asked about the Placed status of Cubes despite incorrectly using the word Scored to describe the scenario.

OP has nothing to do with de-Scoring.

Letâ€™s try to keep the thread on its original topic, and letâ€™s be careful to use correct terminology to help keep it that way.

5 Likes

Whuuuup I somehow thought post 7 was a new thread

My original question was if the robot is in contact or is fully grasping the cube, is it â€śplacedâ€ť even if it is under the line? This questions stems from in the last seconds of a round, rather than taking a cube out of a tower, can you just touch it or grab it to nullify it? @JustARedneckEngineer was getting at it but Iâ€™m not entirely sure he got the rules correct. My original question regarded different methods of descoring cubes such as possibly just being in contact with a scored cube.

There is no way to negate a cube in a tower besides removing it from the tower. a touched cube in a tower still counts as placed. a cube in a tower with another cube on top is still placed (the bottom cube, not the top one that one is irrelevant)

2 Likes

Ok so a quick follow up to that. Letâ€™s say your claw wonâ€™t open, would lowering the cube past the placed line, even if its not touching the bottom of the cup, count as placed?

Cubes in towers are not `scored`. Cubes in towers are `placed`. Cubes in goal zones may be `scored`.

As mentioned above, the definitions of `placed` and `scored` are clearly defined. A cube that is `placed` may be touching one or more robots and have that status. A cube that is being touched by a robot of the the alliance owning the goal zone is not `scored`.

3 Likes

Ok I understand the confusion now, sorry. Will go back and edit my questions/comments.

refer to the game manual