There seems no be some confusion as to the legality of descoring buckyballs from the 24" goals.

Let’s clear this up once and for all. Descoring is LEGAL. Rule G8 states:

Hope this clears some of it up.

The question is how to do it without grappling or latching to the cylinders.

Oh well. Not working on that problem right now.

Honestly I really doubt latching is an issue simply because the rule states no grappling with the INTENT of latching to the field, simply placing your intake into a goal doesn’t sound like you’re trying to latch to me.

This section of the rules doesn’t have much effect on the debate surrounding descoring buckyballs. Why? Two reasons:
Firstly, buckyballs are not the only items capable of being stashed. A large ball can also be stashed. Thus, the bolded portion of the rule above could simply refer to descoring the large ball–not the buckyballs.

Secondly, the means to remove a buckyball from the 24" goal without anchoring yourself to the field has yet to be discovered. Sticking something down the 24" goal to pick up a ball would effectively anchor you to the field. The entanglement rule is the only one that restricts descoring.

Create a vacuum and suck the balls out. Problem solved! :smiley:

Although in Sack Attack, wouldn’t sticking a descorer in the trough also be “anchoring to the field” if there’s no way to remove the descorer without the use of motors? How is this any different in Toss Up?

This probably belongs in the official ask Karthik section but keep here for now to get public comment first and assemble a really good question once he starts answering the accumulated pile…

The G8 rule about knocking stashed objects out of the field of play would be something I would like to see a Karthik/JVN video production on.

Popping (well not literally) a beach ball off the tiny tall stash base appears relatively easy if you have the height. Controlling that movement seems to be what G8 is saying and is at the discretion of the referees. There is a lot of langauge about intent to descore in G8 that could use some clarification.

What is the guidline for acceptable de-scoring apparatus or technique?

Does the robot need to have some mechanism that looks like it will descore the beach ball or bucky ball properly back in the field?

Simply knocking off on to the floor intentionally is against the rules. A side swipe that could land more than 50% of the time back in the field of play seems OK to me. Frontal assaults of knock outs without a gripper/pincer seem like it may be against the rule sicne the ball will tend to fall backwards on to the floor outside the field of play.

Also, since the beach ball and bucky ball are not to be replaced on field as a stashed object, the referees have to place it in the same zone - in this case the goal zone colored in green on page 7. Any guidance as to where to replace on the field would be good. Closest to exit point of the object and not intentially against a robot?


It may be the way I’m reading the rule, but I don’t see any restrictions on what happens when you are descoring stashed objects.

This is basically saying “If you are not descoring stashed objects, then you may not intentionally remove objects from the playing field.”
This is logically equivalent to “If you may intentionally remove objects from the playing field, then you are descoring stashed objects.” (contrapositive)… I don’t see any restriction on intention while descoring.

I see the ref’s getting a lot of exercise.

Even if it is legal, is it worth it for anything beyond the top buckyball? (Assuming your bot is offensive. A wallbot which could also descore would be very powerful)
If you’re descoring you’re actively controlling, if you’re actively controlling you’re possessing. If descoring counts towards possessing, then you are only allowed a maximum of 3 buckyballs you’re interacting with, meaning that you can either score 1 and descore 2, descore 1, score 1 and keep 1, or just descore everything and leave to go get some buckyballs, allowing your opponent to put theirs right back.

It would only count late-game while your opponent was hanging. And during that time, you should be hanging.

This is a great topic and these are good issues to discuss. We hit on all of them the first night.

In general my opinion was (and still is) that descoring is legal, as is knocking off the large balls onto the floor is allowed and that the object will be placed back onto the field in a non scored position (IE NOT back onto the 24" goal).


I’m PRETTY sure scoring isn’t legal…


I still don’t see what’s wrong with sticking a scoop down a goal to descore it.

Stick your arm down a tube that’s bolted to the floor. Then have a friend who plays football tackle you.

If your arm doesn’t break, I’m guessing the tube came off of the ground or snapped. And that’s the problem with sticking solid devices down the cylinders.

I don’t think I’m gonna have football players tackling me. :wink: You could say the same thing about, say, Round Up high goal. I’ll grab onto the Round Up high goal and if my arm doesn’t break when someone tackles me, then I’m clearly doing something wrong, right?

I can’t think of a Sack attack robot that while descoring couldn’t be moved. A traditional top roller wasn’t anchoring neither were any spatulas I ever saw.

Those high-goals had your arm and grasping implements AROUND them. If you hug a tree and get tackled, you aren’t going to be hurting nearly as bad as in my previous scenario.

Grabbing is only as strong as the claw while shoving metal down the goal is as strong as the metal.

Unless your face slams into said tree and breaks. Just sayin’

Face hit tree < broken arm
just sayin

Very true. Don’t mount your Cortex on the front of the robot.