They didn’t have a great day yesterday at the Delmarva Championships. But they had a great day 4 weeks ago with a skills run. With teams double qualified, 8903K was able to punch their ticket to worlds with the skills. Pretty good for a rookie team!
I like how regional / state skills are used to fill the empty spaces to help teams that had an off day at their championship.
What other teams grabbed their ticket to worlds of of their regional / state skills list? Qualifications ended today so you should have / be getting your invitation.
Skills is an excellent way to qualify, it’s simply not a reliable strategy to get in to worlds solely based on the outcomes of a few incredibly high stakes matches where anything could and often does go wrong. Having skills as a backup for when murphy’s law strikes is essential, because skills is the only way into worlds that is entirely under a team’s control.
I’m with you there - skills during the season is a really good way to demonstrate growth and capability of your team and robot design. 9791C was not counting on skills invite, so it was a welcomed surprise and opportunity to step it up and be inspired.
@Xenon27 is correct - skills is totally in team’s control vs match performance.
Presently the system is to fill assigned spots from skills from that region, etc. In cases where a team won a spot and couldn’t go (cost, school mandates, etc. ) they used to pull from Worlds skills. They started pulling from the regional skills for that part. (Which I’m in favor of).
I don’t really understand how the generic wait list works. But if there are unallocated spots then I’m good with them to get filled with the World rankings. But I have to wonder, but guess that @Meng or @Mentor_355v will know, how far down in the Worlds Skills list would you go to find teams that had not gotten an invite already?
Realistically, think double qualifications only happening mainly in USA that’s all? Hard to imagine this is happening in other countries.
Don’t want to detract from the intent of this thread.
And there is too much to unpack regarding this topic as well.
But I have been toying with the idea of putting up a (long) post regarding proposal for new worlds qualifications for some time now. And of course, it will also include worlds qualifications via global ranking,
I can only go by who has accepted a World’s invitation, and with this weekend (supposedly?) being the last weekend for events to qualify to World’s (there may be a couple of variances, like for Kentucky and whatever goes on with all the Texas Regionals). That said, there are currently a number of teams with total skills scores over 500 that have not accepted and invitation to World’s yet.
As others have noted, there are also a number of teams going to World’s who have low skills scores.
Again, RECF/VRC will tell you that they are trying to bring together a diverse range of teams, from many different regions and that there is a wide variance in competitiveness among all regions. And that the purpose of World’s is not, in fact, to find the “best” robot or even the “best” robot alliance.
I’ve been getting more and more into soccer, following it at the national level. An interesting comment I heard in this context was that the purpose of competitions like the U17 World Cup is not to necessarily find the best U17 soccer team, but rather to provide a platform for the best U17 players to showcase themselves.
While not a perfect analogy, I can see some echoes in this approach with VRC World’s. That said, there’s a definite tension in “allowing in less-capable teams at the expense of higher-capable teams from other regions” both watering down competition at World’s and, potentially, demoralizing teams from competitive regions who see these “less capable teams” attending. Balance that against these “less capable teams” who may go to World’s and become inspired to become “more capable”.
It’s tough, and any way you do it, someone is not going to be happy.
To use Singapore as an always terrific example - they have 3 HS spots but 5 teams in the top 80 and 1 MS spot with 2 teams in the top 40. I think it’s fair to say that there is a strong possibility all 7 of those teams would go to Worlds if World rankings were allocated some spots.
There are also a surprising (to me) number of regions with 0 MS spots (or just 1); it is possible they just don’t have any MS teams in some of those areas, I suppose, but even if there are only 1 or 2 I guess they have no chance of getting a Worlds spot without traveling for a Signature Event (MS has those, right?). If they could use Worlds rankings, even places with 0 MS spots would have at least a shot of getting themselves ranked high enough.
I strongly think that there should be a quantity of spots reserved for the global skills leaderboard, it simply isn’t fair for teams of incredibly high caliber that they aren’t able to attend worlds only because their region wasn’t given more than just a few spots.
worlds has 800 teams from high school, I don’t think it’d hurt to dedicate 10-20 of those spots to global skills, and it would give regions like Singapore the chance to bring more than 3 of their extremely high tier teams.
Although it worked out in the end, my team went 1-5 in quals at Indiana State. Luckily, our reputation and bot got us picked early in alliance selection, but we were very close to not making semifinals and losing an auto-bid to worlds. Skills is a savior that more teams should take advantage of because many don’t post high skills until state and that is too unreliable to be consistent year after year. In the end, we weren’t saved by skills, but we were 3 points away from being saved by our skills.
Glad to see you got to worlds, because I watched you get BO1ed live and thought you were robbed. (Personally, that just reaffirms my stance that the bracket match that determines who qualifies for Worlds should be BO3, so in California, the RO16 can be BO1, but if the semifinalists advance, the quarterfinal matchup has to be BO3).
EDIT: you mentioned Singapore, and I recall the biggest reasonable complaint against the abolition of top 50 skills was from the 8059 teams, and I’m sure @meng could tell you more.
DOUBLE EDIT: Wow, I didn’t see they already responded in the thread, lol
teams can just as easily get bo1’ed in ro16 as they can in quarterfinals. I’d say on average doing bo3 ro16 and quarters would add probably 18 matches to the day, likely requiring the shortening of qualification matches by 1 match per team.
whether or not that’s worth it is debatable, but my opinion is that it is worth it. I’m definitely biased, being on the receiving end of bo1 combined with murphy’s law in the worst possible way, but it just seems like it would improve the experience at these insanely high stakes events, and would greatly reduce the likelyhood of a team’s shot at worlds being taken from them due to factors outside their or their partner’s control.
but alas, recf evidently doesn’t see it the same way. Which is why I think skills is probably the single most important thing to do if you’re trying to get to worlds. can’t get bo1’ed in that.