Divisions at Worlds

As much as I have loved Worlds the last three years, I am not a fan of how divisions are decided. The last couple of years, the divisions at the World Championships have been organized by team number. This method of organization means that teams with higher numbers (such as my team, 3057) will never possibly play with or against (until the finals) teams with lower numbers (such as Green Egg, 44 or Super Sonic Sparks, 24C). I love competing at Worlds regardless, but it would be great to know that we could be with or against any teams instead of knowing that we will never compete or collaborate with teams of lower numbers at the World Championship level. Also, teams are often in groups based on number (The New Zealand teams are in the high 2000’s, the Chinese teams are in the 8000’s, and the original American teams are typically under 1000). Is this going to be the case again for this year? I would personally suggest a completely random system of assigning teams to divisions. I’m not trying to complain (again, Worlds has been awesome regardless), I just wanted to get my thoughts out there and see what the community thinks.

  • Adam

I totally agree thankfully for us all the middle schools teams are in one divison

Guess that makes me Chinese :slight_smile:

Haha… that’s really funny :smiley:

anyway… for those who are not aware - teams from Singapore have team numbers that are in the 80XX range as well.

And Singapore is NOT part of China!!
We got a bit discouraged (and tired) answering this same question every time we are in World Vex… :frowning:

I may be a bit biased being in the three digit group, but even with their faults, I like the way the divisions are set up now. With time, the strength of the divisions will fluctuate and regress towards the mean.

I think it is most important that teams can find each other easily. The pit setups the past few years have been very logical. If last year I had to walk to another building to talk to a future alliance partner, it would not be very convenient.

A possible solution to this would be having all of the pits in one building and having the normal setup of rows where the team numbers increase, only the divisions would be separated by columns formed perpendicularly to these rows. It would mean a lot of walking for Papa Smurf (Team 1) to visit Wolfpack Robotics (Team 9378) if they are in an alliance together, but I can’t think of a better compromise and they never would be given a chance to meet each other under the current system.

True. They could organize the pits by division instead of number but then you’d have the problem of splitting up teams from the same school. So perhaps it is logical, but it’s still kind of unfortunate. And I’m not really talking about strength of the teams in the divisions, I am more talking about meeting more teams from a greater variety of locations and backgrounds.

i guess the main issue is the capacity of the venue.
if it is big enough (and i heard anaheim is big enough) to house everyone under the same roof, then i think the randomised divisions will work.

personally, i would prefer to have a randomised division… it will add a sense of intrigue into the whole competition :cool:

I totally agree as Puerto Rico, being 22XX, will probably not get to be an alliance or opponent in any qualifying match with teams like the Cheesy Poofs, Green Egg, or Spur-Flys… Of course, I’m sure these teams would also like to see a more integrated alliance system as they get the chance to meet Free Range, Lynfield, or most Asian teams.

I would like to randomize the teams as well. This gives my team the opportunity to face teams from around the world, as we only faced mostly american teams. However…Randomizing teams also makes the Vex coordinators jobs a bit harder. If Vex continues with their system they have right now, i have no complaints as Worlds is awesome. Just something to think about…

I would definitely agree. Particularly since the 3 digit teams are generally ( not always) American at worlds it’s pretty much a bunch of American teams in one division which doesn’t quite live up to “worlds”. final decision will be made by VRC but I would encourage them to mix up the divisions. :smiley:

Yeah but singapore is close to china

:confused: You know… you can check a map before posting, right? Or perhaps you were looking at this one? http://bigthink.com/ideas/21121

Anyway, on the main topic, given that schools/clubs with multiple teams tend to take the same team number (I used to coach 1346A - 1346F) I think it makes sense to randomize the pools so that they can meet as many new people as possible should multiple teams qualify.

Assuming, of course, that this doesn’t impose terrible logistical problems upon organizers and competitors…

Jason

well if the pits were all mixed up, then you would need to divide all your hardware, chargers, tools into for the different teams, which would be VERY annoying especially for teams with limited parts

Yeah it’s really close. Just one thousand miles away.

So what you’re saying (from a slightly different perspective) is that the current divisional arrangement by team number provides a benefit to clubs or schools that qualify more than one team for Worlds, while a randomized arrangement would put all teams on a more equal footing?

Jason

For the students: Think about this as an engineering problem. Given the goals of the different stakeholders (customers) and the constraints of the problem, how do you maximize outcome? Here are some goals and constraints that we think about when doing divisional assignmentsl:

  1. Multiple teams from the same school/club want to be in adjacent pit spaces.
  2. Teams want to be able to find other teams easily (ordering teams by number in the pits).
  3. Teams don’t want to walk too far to get to their arena. (This is why all the HS teams in the tent played in the HP center at Disneyworld, while the Josten’s Center building played there.)
  4. Most competitors would like to see multiple teams from the same school/club split into multiple divisions.
  5. Spectators would like to see all the teams from their school/club play without having to run around to different arenas.

Keep these in mind when you think about divisional assignments. Just like a new robot design, you have to think clearly about the choices you make and why you make them.

I think this year they are spreading it around. Say your team has 4 teams going. Then each team will be in a seperate division. this should spread around the teams pretty good so that you can play teams from around the world.

Jasonxc1: not saying I don’t believe you but how did you find out?

you guys should hold a contest!
whoever comes up with the most practical solution with the above guidelines wins a gift card or something :slight_smile:
im sure more than one of these brilliant minds can come up with a simple and easy solution!

No offense, but people said that exact same thing before worlds last year and it didn’t happen :wink: saying “you think” that something will happen isn’t a very good thing to say, people need facts! :stuck_out_tongue:

I personally think that the current method is the most viable, for the reasons that Rick pointed out above.