Elevation vs. Cleansweep

So for the last few days, we’ve been talking about which competition is better - Elevation or Cleansweep? We weren’t able to decide, so I’d like to know what you guys think about it.

When we say better, we mean more fun/interesting/engaging/competitive/etc.

We usually judge the competitions by how fun it is to play with the game pieces…and Clean Sweep game objects provide infinitely more entertainment than the Elevation cubes. :slight_smile:

More seriously, Clean Sweep robots are much more interesting because there is much more choice when it comes to making a manipulator (not like the double-tread Elevation robots). I enjoy coaching in a Clean Sweep match because it’s all-out offense, not jousting for the position next to the 3" goal on the far side of the field (Elevation).

Also, as a general rule Robot Skills rounds seem to be indicative of the best robots in the tournament, not the best drivers (as in Elevation).

In Cleansweep there is more variables that interfere with programming then Elevation. This is very fun but becomes a pain to program because of the many different situations that are encountered. Elevation was basically go to the goal and score then move to another. With Cleansweep you have to consider the movement of the balls.

I was going to add this and it has been all i have been thinking about for the past few days.

~DK

But in Cleansweep, (assuming you are not scoring in the 18" goals), scoring in general does not take too much precision. If your intake is something like the wheeled intake or conveyor intake (or possibly even a shovel), a generally accurate program (allowing a few deviations from the ideal) would still enable you to score very close to what you predict, while in Elevation you had to be lined up exactly against the goals, or position your self in the exact spot to intake the cubes in order to score.

The main thing we like about Clean Sweep is that there are so many strategies available. There are many viable designs that all excel at certain things. Fast dumpers that put a few over at a time, monstrous ones that can cause upwards 50 point swings and launcher bots to name a few. Last year for Elevation, the vast majority of the successful robots were using dual tank treads to pick up the cube, and the most successful strategies involved rushing for the 3" goals as soon as possible. This year it is an extremely dynamic game.

I personally liked Elevation better because I thought that there was much more skill involved especially with the driving. There was much more strategy there with which goals to go towards first and also with blocking the other robots from not getting to the goals/autoloaders. I also felt that the platform in the middle and the giant cube added a lot more elements to it and because of these elements strategy was a key part. In Clean Sweep it feels as if there is not much strategy involved and it is just mindless offense. But this is just my take on it.

I personally prefer Cleansweep, because I felt that in elevation the majority of designs was the generic parallel treds, where Cleansweep there are a diversity of designs(shovel, roller intake, catapult, box…etc).

To rebut what my fellow teammate said, I think that platform and bonus cube were insignificant bonuses totaling only 10 points where in the same amount of time to do those actions two cubes could be scored in different goals gaining your team a valuable 12 points. In Cleansweep you also have a more to consider when strategizing, from other robots blocking you, to the option to dump outside of the field, and other subtleties such as dispersing the balls on the opposing side. Where in elevation all you had was the monotonous lining up with the goals and outaking. This years challenge is a much more difficult competition with its larger diversity of game objects and very few robots being able to do everything. This opportunity to expand ones robots options to score this late in the season really says something about the game.

I think that elevation showed off robot design far more than driver skill. If you take a look at robot skills challenge for elevation, the top teams were capped at 60 points with almost no way to score higher. This year, there are no guaranteed single routes to success for driving and the variety of robots reflects that. Where elevation focused on having the top cube for the entire game, cleansweep has a lot more strategy involved with the skill of the driver being tested in the games of blocking and dumping at the wall seen quite often thus far this year.

It seemed to me that the Elevation matches themselves were far more interesting the Cleansweep matches, but that might just be my opinion.

Lmui, I was thinking the exact opposite: Cleansweep’s driving is much simpler than Elevation’s. With Elevation you had to have precise positioning to score, but with Cleansweep you can dump anywhere along the middle wall, or even the outer walls, depending on your strategies. Elevation, on the other hand, had the generic parallel treads design. Cleansweep’s design variety shows off robot design more.

I agree that Cleansweep is far more dynamic though - the game strategies are still changing, and new ideas are emerging less than two months from Dallas.

I prefer clean sweep over elevation because all of the robots in elevation were double tread intake in clean sweep there are so many more design,s but elevation was still much better than almost all of the challenges made by first for ftc

I think everyone is saying that the designs are different - yes, true. After a point last season, each person copied the other. Not to say that it doesnt happen this year (some teams all have the same design across the board…), but there are several methods that can be successful.

The part that I love the most is the variability in scoring options, the enclosed field, and increased strategy required. From not slamming into your alliance partner to managing points to be ranked higher, I find myself going through strategy meetings with alliance partners much more than in Elevation (which was score and go with little defense possible). For autonomous, instead of just moving an arm, dumping, and stop as with last year we are now forced to move outside of our starting position to score, and with clearing the wall it’s less about precision and more about speed and force. Not to mention pushing cubes was relatively easy. Pushing spherical objects adds a ton of excitement and frustration that can be overcome by quality engineering.

Not to mention holonomic drive is actually really, really useful in this competition, where I found that 4WD was much better last year beyond minor positioning issues.

We did not play Elevation, we played FTC Face Off. I can tell you I like Cleansweep a lot better because the drivers are involved and NO BLUETOOTH!

Anyone have a comparison with this year’s FTC Hot Shot?

I did not play elevation but i was here to see what everybody was up to. I think i like clean sweep better. There are a bunch of diverse designs. Although auto doesn’t need to be as precise you also have to think that the auto bonus is not really a huge part this year because the scores are so much higher. I have an autonomous that i am happy with but i see it more as an advantage going into driver control and less of a chance to earn 5 points. It is nice for me to start driver control, and know that the other alliance has more work to do than i do because i put a bunch of footballs over the wall during autonomous.

~DK

I would have to say that I like Clean Sweep more than i liked Elevation. there are far more game objects in Clean Sweep to play with and many more game strategies that can take place in the duration of one match. However I do miss the robot-on-robot interaction of Elevation. True you can still play defense in Clean Sweep but it’s just more of “Block their dump!” rather than “block that robot from getting to that side of the field;” for interaction :slight_smile: .