I am sure some of you guys have seen a strategy posted by a certain team where they park on your alliance platform before the last 30 seconds in order to prevent you from accessing it. Seeing it I immediately thought: “but what if you trap them up there?” For example, team parks on your platform, you and your alliance shove 1 of your alliance mogos on each side of the platform essentially making the platform impossible to tip, in other words, alliance is stuck on the platform (and if he tries getting off his robot would probably tip over and either way end up immobile) would this be considered trapping? The rulebook defines trapping as the following: “A Robot is Trapping if it has restricted an opposing Robot into a small, confined area on the field, approximately the size of one foam field tile or less.” The tower front to back is around the size of one field tile, but each end is about the size of two which means the robot does have certain amount of room to move. Although the rulebook further elaborates “and has not provided an avenue for escape” but is referring to the above 1 field tile or less but could be used to argue that if the other robot can’t escape from the platform than it is trapping.
With that in mind I beleive it could be argued both ways, one could say it is trapping since you cant leave the platform, and one could say it is not trapping since they have about 2 foam field tiles worth of space to move. But for a minute let’s assume it is not trapping as I have a follow up question on this: so if you’re stuck on the platform and it’s not considered trapping, would you get a disqualification for being on the platform in the last 30 seconds considering preventing the other alliance from stacking goals on the platform it would be match effecting? Or would you receive SG3 violations because your touching the platform in the last 30 seconds? Would the ref decide to not give them penalties under rule G14(I’ll elaborate on g14 in a moment)? Or give them a penalty since they were the ones that tries to park on the opposing alliances platform in the first place? Personally, from my veiw if you take the trapping rule very specifically the opposing alliance would not be trapped, and would ultimately receive sg3 violations.
But this is where G14 comes into play, the rule states that “Intentional strategies that cause an opponent to violate a rule are not permitted, and will not result in an infraction on the opposing alliance.” So with this rule in mind since trapping the opposing alliance on the alliance platform would probably fall under G14 the other robot would not receive any violations. Similarly a team in the Arizona HS State Championship experienced something like this, although not trapped on top of the platform, they were trapped and forced into multiple sg3 violations, but the ref ultimately decided not to give them any penalties because they were trapped.
But this begs another question, I believe that under G14, pushing an opposing alliance into the platform would be considered intentionally causing a robot to get a violation. I believe the reason why the refs consider this to not be a violation it wouldn’t be considered a strategy, but at the same time, it kinda is. While it would only happen if the other alliance happened to go near the platform, most alliances would have probably taken into mind the sg3 rule and be prepared in case an alliance approaches the platform; thus, it is a strategy. But what does vex consider a strategy? The same thing applies to an alliance parking on the platform, so would that be considered a strategy? As I mentioned an alliance from Arizona didn’t receive penalties but again them being in the area they were isnt something that could be predicted beforehand. So, if pushing an alliance is not considered a strategy the how come trapping an alliance being trapped and forces into sg3s is?
Nothing in the trapping specifies being up in the air, so to speak… so put mobile goals under platform if you feel you can outscore the opposing alliance. The robot on the platform has the option of doing a 12" drop - it is a legitimate avenue of escape…
Interesting scenarios, but I suspect not one to be played at Worlds, I could be wrong…
[edit - and probably am wrong - I just want to see a robot run off the platform… probably as much fun as catch robots running off inspection tables…]
[and on forcing one into a SG3 violation, they chose to be obnoxious and park on your platform… so it was their intention to be up there, peril is on them having not thinking it through…]
Well it it doesnt specifically say anything about the robot being in the air but it also doesn’t say anything about the robot being on the field tiles, it’s just says “in the field” and if I am correct ontop the platform is still “in the field” and as for a robot dropping in the field, it may be possible for it to self right itself in some situations but is it really considered legitimate if they end up stuck tipped over if they do attempt to escape in a not idea scenario?
Pushing the boundaries of the rules leaves you exposed to the Head Ref’s discretion, in general. RECF should really reach out to the Aspiring Lawyers Foundation for some cross-promotional opportunities!
In the game manual, SG3 superceded G14, meaning you could push opposing robots into your own platform and get points (within reason, like if they were already close to it, you didn’t have them from across the field.
I don’t think being on the platform counts as trapping; iirc, trapping involves pinning them with your robot in some way, which this does not. As long as you back away, they could still technically have 2 tiles of space.
So in general, I think that if they get on your platform, they are leaving themselves wide open to strategies like this.
It might be possible for SG10 to come into play by arguing that you are using the mobile goals that are under the platform to commit a rule violation in place of the robot (trapping)
Well, I guess there’s a rule you can’t use a Game Object to do something that would have been illegal if a robot had done it, but is there a rule a robot can’t do something it’s illegal for a mogo to do? Either way, a Head Referee is not likely to be happy about your clever way around it.
As for shoving mogos under your own platform it is legal to do so on your own, just illegal in the opposing alliance platform but in my scenario the opposing alliance would be on my platform not theirs.
and that is the point here - the opposing alliance chose to be on the platform… their choice, and their problem to resolve if they don’t want to be up there.
Literally, it is your platform - the opposing alliance is on your platform.
So no violation of SG3 for me if the opposing alliance choses to go up on it. I can do what I wish under my platform. It is a problem for opposing alliance to figure out how to undo it.
[edit - the final 30 seconds, if the opposing alliance is on my platform they have violated SG3]
Whoever is parking on their opponent’s platform is arguably in violation of <SG3d>. Trapping them up there may or may not be illegal, but since it’s illegal for Red to put mogoes on Blue’s platform, why would it be legal for Red to park on Blue’s platform?
The match is scored when everything goes to rest, so technically the balanced mobile goals are not scored. Therefore no rule violation there. 4082B and several other teams have tried this strategy without any major repercussions.
