Hanging half way through the season and beyond

At the start of the season I asked the question of if hanging would be important during this year. Most answered that it would be (if I am remembering correct), as long as it was done pretty fast. So now that it is halfway through the season what does everyone think about it. I will say that at least in Texas there are very few robots that can hang. At the Greenville competition (56 teams) there was about 3 teams that could hang. So at this point in time how fast must hanging be and is it even worth it. I will start it off, I think it should take definitely less than 10secs but preferably around 5secs. I think it will be needed at worlds so might as well start perfecting it now.

Our robot can drive from the other corner of the field, line up, and hang in about eight seconds. Although we usually make our way to the hanging pole side of the field mid match so we are closer, make it take even less time.

I definitely think the hanging will be very important this year and should be done in a maximum of 6-8 seconds including aligning. I think 1-2 seconds most for actually lifting the robot up is reasonable.

I agree that hanging will become very important!

It is true that a hang can be outweighed pretty quickly, but it still represents a pretty big point swing. In very competitive matches with otherwise even back/forth throwing and blocking, it could easily be the decider. However, I think it will need to be done in under 4 seconds including alignment time. We can align and hang in around 8 seconds, but that isn’t fast enough in our experience.

The part that takes the most time is definitely lining up, so as the season goes on and people come up with very fast ways of grabbing the pole, I think there will be lots more hangs.

I think a hanging robot is going to be more like the specialist from this point in this season. The best robots out there likely will be the brawny ones, in that they can turn over a large amount of stuff to the other side quickly. Hanging, because it is somewhat difficult to build something to hang, probably will be achievable only for a few robots per region. Scarcity can actually be a good thing for those hanging robots, as the teams that have brawny robots will look for a high hanging robot to complement them in elimination matches because of their point value (12 points, 15% of theoretical max score).

At the last competition (Greenville) we went to there was almost no hanging in the eliminations. we had a hanger that took around 15secs to line up and hang, this was way too long. we now have a 5secs hanger (including lining up), I am thinking that this will be about the standard at worlds.

It’s an interesting question. Right now in Arizona, it seems like the good teams that can hang only do it when they’ve already won the match. In close matches the drivers are more focused on moving scoring objects over and don’t want to stop to hang and let their opponents get ahead in the last few seconds.

I don’t know if hanging will progress to ever be faster than a 12 point swing via scoring objects.

How can people get a 5 second hang on a robot?

In Indiana, if I remember correctly, the winning alliance at every competition my team has been to includes at least one hanging robot. Hanging seems to make a big difference in the finals.

In my opinion, hanging really didn’t become the decider in matches until this past weekend at the City of Indianapolis Championships. Usually, 323Y and 6210X blowout their competition during the eliminations. However, I think it will begin to become important now that matches are becoming more competitive.

I believe that hanging can be useful only if you can hang in under the amount of time the opponent can get two loads over. I don’t really see a use for hanging when you are in a loosing situation and if you are winning by just a few points, trying to hang is a huge risk.

To me the value of hanging comes down to points per second (pps).

Imagine the following levels of allies/opponents:
A) High performing bots scoring 4 starts in an 8 second cycle, ideally a 16 point net score, or 2 pps
B) Slightly less awesome bots scoring 3 in 9 seconds, for a 12 point net, or 1.3 pps
C) Modest bots scoring 2 in 12 seconds, for an 8 point net, or .7 pps

In order to carry your share of the pps total for your alliance by hanging instead of field play…
If everyone on the field is a C, then you would need to hang in under ~17 seconds
If everyone is a B, you need to hang in ~9 seconds.
If everyone is an A, you need to hang in 6 seconds.
These times are just to keep even with what you could do in field play.

There are obviously many other factors involved in the decision. Are most of the stars in the near zone?.. Can your ally can solo hold off the opponents?.. Who won autonomous?.. etc.

However, I feel like the 12 point bonus is insufficient relative the amount you can score from the field in the same time.

Another thing to consider is that if you’re a C, but you can hang in 6 seconds, you nearly triple your pps by hanging.

I believe a robot can be both brawny and hang. We can hold up to three stars and a cube or six stars in our claw and still have a very quick hang, especially in our region at the moment

Hanging is very important, it can cause a difference in very close matches. It takes us about 6.34 seconds to hang.

We can hold up to 3 stars with a cube and we have about a 5 second hang (lining up included).

Very nice. (Not kidding, seriously impressed.) You might have an interesting decision to make in the last 8 seconds of a match. 5 second hang (if it includes drive time to the pole) is 2.4 pps. 3 stars and a cube is a potential 20 point swing. If you can score the field objects in ~8 seconds, its better pps.

Your extreme competence may actually prove my point. If you are looking at a field with 3 stars and a cube in the high zone, and know you have just enough time to score them to the opposing high zone… would you hang instead? If you muff the hang you get 0 points. If you partial fail the field objects you would get a 5+ point swing.

26k magic, lol

And a LOT of drive time.

That and many mechanical solutions to help the lining up.