How can one determine the top 10 unqualified teams in the Global Skills Leaderboard?

How about this?
Logically I would expect teams that ranked high in the region to make it to the regional? Or are there a lot of outliers?

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This is in fact what has changed based on the new qualifying criteria.

Correct it is based on the skills list at the specific event region championship.

Main reason is exactly like you said, there were enough instances of teams making it to Worlds by posting a high skills event at another event say in another region, but not compete at the state championship. It’s kind of an exploit system.

Doesn’t really right that a team could just go post a big score, not compete at their ERC and then get a worlds spot via double qualifications.

Makes sense to me

How about this?
Logically I would expect teams that ranked high in the region to make it to the regional? Or are there a lot of outliers?

Enough to make a change apparently.

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Honestly, this change really sucks. VRC can already be incredibly stressful at times. There is a lot of pressure day of for the state meet as that is your shot to qualify for worlds. If you have a bad day at state, your season ends. At least before, you could have a good skills score from before to fall back on if things don’t go well day of. Now state meets are going to be even more stressful as you also have to put up your top score the day of state.

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Isn’t the point of competitions to create stress?

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Usually, all rule and criterion changes are done for a purpose. The purpose of this one is to make State/Regional/Nation Championship much like Worlds in the sense that VRC teams are only allowed to compete with one Robot that they created. It hardens the concept that Championship events are there for the teams that participate in them.

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It seems unfortunate that skills no longer matters outside of at your regional event. If you qualify for that event early on in the season, then there is no benefit to running skills at any other event, unless you think you can will skills champion.

I liked being able to put up a good skills score at any point in the season as a safeguard against murphy’s law (and in my case, it certainly was). I would have not made it to worlds if only my states skills scores were taken into consideration, which would have been very unfortunate, especially considering how skills at my states event had an extremely long line and most teams could barely get even half of their runs in. I think it’s better to look at the skills scores teams put up across the entirety of the season rather than only consider the scored posted at one particular event.

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At least in my region the same teams keep winning the spots to our ERC so there are a good number of teams that qualify for our ERC via the robot skills list. Heck, all 3 of my organization’s teams qualified that way, but I know that for larger regions with more qualifiers and more good teams (not just a couple that keep on winning) this might not be the case.

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A good skills score can also help with judged awards too.

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To expand a bit, Judges also like seeing growth through the season - so unless you maxed out the Skills score, you can use that as a measure of the team’s robot growth during the season. Be sure to document it in your Engineering Notebook.

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There was a pretty good “inside baseball” at how the initial slots and then invitations for Worlds are given out. While many events can take one more team at build a pit in a hallway, not so at Worlds. They can’t go over the space but also need to be as close (otherwise people go “well, there were only 790 teams at Worlds, they could have gotten 10 more in”). They also do a ton of “look backs” to try to get the high level teams in there.

Overall I’m good with the changes that got made for this season. There is a better chance that my regional slots will be filled by teams from the region. And it has some wiggle room to get smaller places like Singapore a chance at sending more teams.

There were also some smaller changes that got added (like the deadline is now 14 Oct vs 1 Oct), event needs to be out there for a week before it opens.

The one that I lobbied for and missed was that all events “opened” at 11 AM EDT on Tuesdays. This would allow people to go and register for an event at a convenient time vs late or super early. (But there is always next year)

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I think this specification should be left to each region. I believe we are looking opening mid-week and mid-day -there is a discussion regionally for that (which I believe you are part of :slight_smile: )… So you did get most of it :slight_smile:

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I definitely hear you on this one. My 8301C team was in a similar situation- they did have a decent skills score at state and may have still qualified under these new rules, but knowing that they had already posted an excellent score previously allowed the kids to feel a bit less nervous at State. I did feel that the San Diego location of the SoCal championships did provide ample opportunities for teams to run skills this year (2 designated skills fields, etc) but this has not always been the case. I think it is important that the EPs running regional championships are aware of this change and make sure to prioritize that teams have plenty of opportunities to run skills at these events since it is now more important than ever.

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We’ve gotten good at Skills logistics now that you can use V5 Brain to control the fields, allowing us to swap over any practice field into a skills field. Good for load balancing.

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I am one of the EPs that is involved with the SoCal San Diego championships, so I am speaking from experience here. For us it has never been a matter of electronics logistics- we have had that dialed in for years (thanks Alec!). This year we had 2 designated skills fields and also opened the 3 competition fields during lunch. This was the first year that I felt that teams truly had ample opportunities to run skills. At least here in SoCal, you will never find a practice field empty enough to use for skills. They are always packed. I really do think having at least 2 skills fields is the answer, and is something EPs just need to plan for. Perhaps in less competitive regions, this is not the case, but here, almost every team that attends the regional championships plans to run skills.

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Teams do not dictate operational needs :slight_smile: - they have been good about moving aside for Skills runs. We do not break for lunches, so main fields not available.

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But RECF does, you need the “GPS” strip on the skills field, not on the practice or qualification fields.

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Actually, you need GPS on the Programming Skills fields. There was wiggle room when I brought up at the EP Summit - Which is more important? Six Skills runs per team or Identical fields? The answer was Six skills runs per team.

I think end of day, teams appreciate flexibility and RECF values having teams be able to demonstrate the best they have to offer.

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I love that the top 10 unqualified teams in Skills get an automatic spot to Worlds now! This will be of great help to teams who outperform their Worlds spot allocations, or who had a bad day at States but were exceptionally high-performing otherwise, and it will provide a carrot-on-a-stick to encourage all the other teams who feel like they have a chance of reaching the top 10 of unqualified teams in the world (like the top 35 did for my team in ITZ).

I would prefer if teams could still qualify for Worlds from their region based on their Skills scores throughout the season, instead of having the fate of their Worlds trip hinge entirely on their regional championship (except for Signature Events if they can make it to one and Online Challenges if they can win one), but if this change was made, there must have been a reason for it (even if I were to disagree with that reason).

One benefit to the change is that if a team gets an unusually high Skills score at a local event due to a difference in how the rules are enforced, they will be less likely to repeat this at a regional championship, which would usually have higher standards than a local event. (And if a regional championship fails to follow the rules, it’s possible the local events have even greater discrepancies.) The new rule also makes it less hard on a team if they can’t sign up for local events as quickly, since even if you did compete at an extra event, it wouldn’t give you an extra chance to get a Skills score that qualifies you for Worlds (though you’d still benefit from other aspects of the event, including the extra practice doing Skills runs on a field besides your own).

Now that Skills scores at the regional championship are the only ones that can get you to Worlds (unless you’re in the top 10 or your region had some teams be unable to go to the regional championship), regional championships need to do their very best to make sure every team has a reasonable time to do all 6 Skills runs (including 3 Programming Skills which require the GPS strip), or if not, at least come as close as possible. If there are regions who haven’t consistently provided adequate time for Skills runs in the past, I’m sure many of them will improve at it this year, and I’m sure the others will try as hard as they can.

If there is a situation where a region cannot provide adequate time for Skills runs at the Regional Championship, I am hoping the RECF will be able to find a way to give the teams who would have qualified an opportunity to go to Worlds if this is possible, or to help them out in some other way if there is no way for them to go to Worlds. (If there are somehow waitlist spots available despite the changes, maybe these teams could be prioritized for those spots, although a better way would be to do it .)

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Hi Meng,

Yes, this change was a direct result of your proposal. Sorry I did not respond directly to that thread but I did read it (after Worlds) and met with my Programs teams. It made sense to implement this alongside the other skills change that was recommended.

Thank you for your input and feedback.

Dan

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