Integrity of the competition


#1

Anyone else feel like the atmosphere of the game and rules is changing?


#2

Anyone else feel like the atmosphere of the game and rules is changing?


#3

I would suggest asking about the situation without naming names to get opinions from the community here on the forums, then if you have specific problems, accusations, or questions take them up with the event partner and the RECF rep.


#4

This is what this thread is for. I am just disappointed at all of the calls happening with this game at certain competitions. Does anyone else have any stories of stuff like this happening at previous comps?


#5

As someone who read your post before it was deleted, I completely agree with the deletion by @DRow and the rationale by @lacsap.

To go with your own analogy, posting here on the forum as you did before is not akin to telling the teachers. As @lacsap suggested, contacting the event partner would be like telling the teacher; contacting your regional support manager would be like telling the principal/headmaster/superintendent.

Your post on this forum was simply an unproductive and unprofessional accusation of that team, and nothing more. Furthermore, there may have been circumstances at play beyond those of which you were aware – you simply assumed fault based on just your perceptions.


#6

would this thread be used for previous years or mainly focused on this year


#7

@FatGorilla i would suggest this year but I also want to see how the game has changed over the previous years


#8

I didn’t see the other thread before it was deleted. But I would like to point out that @lascap is not a forum manager, nor is @Barin , who agreed with him. It wasn’t just forum managers who thought the post was inappropriate, which to me suggests might want to look at what you wrote before and consider it with fresh eyes.

No, as to a rules exploit, why don’t you specifically explain what that rule exploitation is? Don’t name a team. Don’t name a competition. Don’t name a ref. Focus on the rule. What is the rule? How can it be exploited? When you do this, we can have a meaningful discussion about the subject. Right now you’re just ranting.


#9

I am sorry if I am ranting but here is what I mean:

Hey, i was just disappointed at how at my previous competition, the family of a certain team got involved in the judging process and reffing. For example, we had won a match fair and square yet it was replayed because they had lost connection due to an unknown reasons. In the rulebook it states that this does not call for a rematch, yet there was one and we lost the second one due to another bs call where they were not called for unintentional entanglement yet it was match affecting. This happened again in the finals where the match had to be replayed due to them. As per the notebook, my teammates noticed how they only had about 7-9 pages that were hastily put together in a few minutes. Somehow, this beat out former design award competitiors who also had astounding notebooks. I also noticed that the judges for the interview for the award were just the parents of the team members and had no connection to the competition whatsoever. Yet both in juding and reffing, they were involved which caused match affecting and competition affecting changes.


#10

sometimes stuff happens, and the forum really isn’t the place to complain about it. I’ve lost comps to what I thought were bad ref rulings, but instead of creating a thread to complain about it, I created a thread to discuss whether or not that ruling was correct, and what to do next time a call like that was made. I suggest you do the same.


#11

As @Xenon said, that would be the way to go. Let’s just take the “unintentional entanglement” one for now. Is there video of it? What exactly happened? I mean “exactly.”

For example, there was a situation in Starstruck where a robot ended up on the other side of the field in autonomous. People were claiming that it was the fault of that robot’s team because it wouldn’t have gone over the fence if it hadn’t moved its arm after getting entangled. However, the same was true of the other team. The robot would not have gone over the fence even having moved its arm, except that the other robot also moved in a way that pulled the robot over. So neither robot would have managed it on their own, so neither could really be held 100% responsible for the result. Thus the people claiming one side or the other were using flawed arguments because of the mutual actions that were needed.

In this case, if we’re lacking video, we would need to know the actions of all robots involved as well as what happened as a result, not just what happened as a result.


#12

I don’t fully understand this conversation. I don’t really see the cohesiveness, but I agree with a lot of what’s being said.

The forum is for discussing rules and interpretations, but not for calling out people on their interpretations specifically. I saw the originally mentioned post after it was deleted, so I’m not exactly sure what happened. But, I gather it was not what is expected by forum etiquette.

Seems to me like it was a slip of phrasing. Judges should be expected to be impartial and objective. I don’t know what happened st the competition. Parents are awesome if they volunteer. We shouldn’t be too hard on them, or any volunteers for that matter. But, again, I don’t know what happened.


#13

The following is from the judge’s guide:

I don’t use parents for judging as it will always lack the appearance of impartiality. If I had to grab a parent at the last minute and as a last resort, I would ask for the parent of a kid that didn’t turn in a notebook from a different school.

I would send an email to the event partner, the RECF rep, and if you want to go higher up that’s something you can consider as well. You could also have your coach / teacher do this with you. Keep in mind that there is no way that they are going to go back and take away state spots from anyone, and they are not going to change any match results.

I have heard things like this and I always bring it to my RECF representative. The RECF even hired additional staff in Florida to make sure that they can be at more competitions. While these are not audits, the greater presence they have, the better. They want their competitions to be great and they will act if they hear a number of complaints. You might not know how they are doing it, and they might not directly address you, but they do take it seriously.


#14

+1


#15

Is there a video of this?


#16

You really should contact your RSM. None of us were there. None of us know what went on in the judge’s room. Your RSM can request notes from the head judge and review what happened. Sorry you came away with such bitter feelings.


#17

Yes. It got posted to the forums here somewhere here a little under two years ago. I don’t know how long it would take me to find it, though.


#18

Found it:
https://vexforum.com/t/problems-with-competition-template/15656/1


#19

I think a quick explanation of my rationale of the request to lock the thread - the team was upset about one tournament that occurred 10 days ago. The team specifically called out another team and event staff as unethical. There was no specific about how did they tried to resolve this in a productive manner. The EP ought to be the first person you speak tom preferably at the event or in the days that follow. You should include the RECF RSM copied on so they are aware of the situation. This is not unusual, as EPs we want teams to come to our events in the future. RECF RSM will also support making future events less controversial, but they need to know what is going on. So please, if you have an issue with a particular event, contact the EP and RECF RSM - it will help make the competitions in the future better.

Ranting on VEXForum about specific teams is not a good way do things. Yes teams have brought up specific situations that included video of the situation being discussed, and yes the conversation lasted a while. However, in this case coming down so hard calling the event personal cheaters was over the top to me. Most event complaints are addressed respectfully through the proper channels. Otherwise, it may reflect poorly on the team and their organization as a whole.

As others have noted, I am not a VEXForum manager, just an EP and robotics advisor.