"Interacting" with the gate?

Now, I probably will take this to the official Q and A later on, but I just thought it would be good to have a discussion on it in this thread, to see if we can think of any solutions, find any new opinions, etc.

Ok, all of us should know that it is illegal to interact with the gate for more than five seconds, and it is also illegal to interact with the gate after 35 seconds is left in the match.

We should also know that it is illegal to pin for more than five seconds.

However, I think I’ve noticed a problem. There being 2 robots of each alliance on the field, it is possible to pin a robot of the opposing alliance against their gate for more than 5 seconds. (eg. one pins into gate for four seconds, backs off exactly as other robot comes in and pins against gate). Technically this should result in a DQ for the pinned robot, when it definitely shouldn’t, as they are interacting with (touching the) gate for more than 5 seconds.

A similar situation is if a robot is pinned into a gate with say, 32 seconds left. The team is not allowed to raise their gate, as a robot is interacting with it, and should therefore be disqualified no matter what.

Obviously neither of these disqualifications should actually take place, so I think their needs to be some clarification in the rules to make these not a disqualifiable offence.

So, what do you think???

Ok, I just realised something that makes my first “mis-rule” invalid. The pinning rule actually states " After ending a Pin, a team may not Pin the same Robot again for a duration of 5 second", meaning the “chain pin” I described isn’t actually legal.

However, the second one is still up for debate.

I think “team” means robot in that case. so blue robot B can pin immidiately after blue robot A backs off. That’s just my understanding of it… but I’m sure refs would be lienient because it is not the intent of the game to purposely DQ ur opponet

You’ll have to forgive me if I’ve got this wrong… I’ve got the rules for a few different robot games floating through my head at the moment, but I believe there is a standard clause in the rules along the lines of “the actions of your opponent cannot result in a penalty to you”.

In other words, if you were attempting to get away from the gate and obey the rules, it isn’t your fault that someone prevents you from doing so.

Yeah… I know, I should go and actually read the rule book and quote the specific rule… but I’m pretty sure it is in there.

Jason

Nope, I don’t think that is a rule in VEX.

However, there is one along the lines of “Common sense applies”, which could relate to these circumstances.

<G1> is pretty useful, right? :stuck_out_tongue:

At a scrim, i would probably warn/DQ the pinning team. However, just because someone is being pinned against the gate does not always make it impossible to open.

Actually, such a chain pin would indeed be legal. It says a team cannot pin the robot again, but it says nothing of the whole alliance.

It does make it illegal for the gate to be opened though. And yes, I agree with you, in a sense the robot that is pinning is arguably interacting with the gate THROUGH the other robot, so should be warned/DQ’d.

I believe that this Q&A answers the question fully:https://vexforum.com/t/answered-interaction-with-the-gate/20200/1
Specifically this part:

Ok, thanks for that! I really think something explaining this should be implemented into the rulebook, because not everyone uses the forums/QandA.

What would happen if say a six-bar arm robot accidentaly tips backwards and falls right over the gate. The robot cannot get up, it’s not its fault, but now the gate cannot be lifted. It would be considered interacting with the robot. And if the robot belonged to the blue alliance and the blue alliance lifted the gate so as to place their robot in the upright position would also be considered interacting with the robot.

The same Q&A referenced earlier answers that question: