http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-cS5vKjcyg&NR=1
Look at the match just after 45 seconds. At the end of the match they said it was intentional tipping.
IMHO, this looked like defense to me, with no intention to tip or entangle 1492’s robot.
What do you guys think?
That looked completely unintentional. I mean, they looked surprised, stopped moving, and even tried to help. Either that, or they’re really good actors.
At around 1:07, it seems to me that the bot that tipped them over is trying to get them back up (although not successful)
On a totally unrelated note, 1:50 was pretty funny
That was by no means intentional. They barely hit them and backed away as soon as they see it even remotely tip. Clearly unintentional to me.
Remember: Low CGs are your friend.
that doesn’t seem to be intentional at all its to very tall robots with the center of gravity not low enough to counter act their height and the two robots running into each other just caused them to fall over there shouldn’t be any penalty for that at all there is no grounds for it. Also the rule book does say that Round Up is a highly interactive game and teams should design with this in mind. This just shows that teams over look the CG aspect of their designs.
On a side note this video also shows how important de-scoring is going to be this year 
I don’t believe that was intentional tipping either. I actually think it was the other team’s fault for making their design so top-heavy. It’s too bad you guys lost that game. I hope you ended up winning in the long run!
And btw I really like how you combined the forklift idea with the stacker idea. Kinda combines the ability to pick up stacks well with the ability to pick up single tubes at a time. Is your team planning on hanging this year?
Also, I suggest you submit that video to the video wiki page that some one created here. There’s a thread about it if you look for it.
And yes, this definitely proves that. The great thing about their robot was that they would be able to de-score a goal and then have tubes still on their robot ready to score on that same goal
This often happens in scrimmages in NZ Cough Cough Free Range Cough Cough but we understand that it is unintentional, and in this case i think it was not intentional because you both appeared to be going for the same stack (one picking up, and one knocking over) therefore how could it be intentional? also good on you for trying to help them up, its always appreciated. Was this punished?
I believe that it was punished, as they went on to have a third match, even though the blue alliance had clearly won by the score on the field.
~Jordan
When the bot that was being tipped initially became unstable, the offending team, did give a little double take, that made it seem like it was intentional.
But, that’s only after looking at the video a couple of times.
If I had to make this call, I would’ve considered this to be within the realms of fair play. Both robots were top heavy, and a love tap turned out to be more damaging than intended.
I saw the match. The Cambie/Moscrop alliance that was DQ’ed in this match did go on to win match 3 and thus the tournament.
I think it would be fair to say that the head ref (the gentleman in the green shirt) had an excellent view of the interaction between the two robots and made his best call under the circumstances. Reffing is a tough job, and had I been in his position I might have made the same call. Or I might have made a different call, and the tournament might have ended with one robot lying on its back… as it is, I think everyone came away satisfied that the winning alliance won fair and square. I think it was clear from the efforts to right the fallen robot that the Cambie/Moscrop alliance did not want to win the tournament while their opponent was incapacitated. As stressful as the DQ call might have been for them at the time, I think it will just make their victory more meaningful in the long run.
However what was confusing as a spectator was that it LOOKED like the ref was “waving off” the call. The swinging of his arms shortly after the call appeared to me that he was signalling no foul. He may have said something different to the teams at the time, but watching from the stands I could not tell. The DQ was announced to the crowd only after the match had ended.
I would suggest that when a ref makes a DQ call in an elimination match that the call be immediately and clearly signalled and that the match be stopped at that point. There is, after all, no point in continuing a match that is already decided.
I was, however, very impressed by the teams from 1492 (as well as many others at the event) and hope to see them in Richmond at Cambie Secondary in a couple weeks as our competition season start to build up steam in BC and Washington.
Well said.
I believe the call was appealed, I’m not sure how the decision was reversed. Perhaps Rick TYler could shed some light, if he was talking to the other refs or field management?
I don’t believe any Interlake team is going to be competing until the Redmond Winter competition. Unless some miracle happens, 1899 will not be going to Cambie (we were snowed in Tuesday and Wednesday, and the robot, which we had intended to take home Wednesday after school, will be locked within the school in the spontaneous 6-day weekend).
On the other hand, I would really like to go up there for any of the February BC competitions just to see Trobotics wood shop during the construction of their FRC robot… :rolleyes:
I am not really sure if it was intentional or not but one thing that i noticed is that one of the drivers opens his arms as if to question the call that doesn’t appear to have been made yet.
~DK
sorry for this thread bump but a similar situation happened this weekend
at 1:06
according to the above posts (a few months ago mind you) both these robots have their arm down and low CG
it was called “fair play” by the ref
not to cause trouble but im just pointing it out and trying to figure out what kind of “tipping interaction” will be allowed for at worlds
The ref in me would have called that a DQ because the offending robot has the long prongs on the front which seem to go under the robot and then they lifted their arm up which caused the tipping so I would have called that a DQ but that’s just one mans call
I can’t see how the robots interacted.
Assuming no forklift-like prongs to wedge under the robot - if a robot tips simply by being in the way of an arm trying to extend, it has far too high of a CG.
I think a good case could be made that the blue robot that started pinning the red robot was tipped over in a foreseeable manner by the red robot’s movements. But… we don’t/won’t know and the call has already been made.
Also, I’ll bet a $1.00 (we will never know the answer) that the blue robot that initiated the contact would have soon been guilty of a pinning violation if they had stayed upright.
Volunteer to be a ref at the next competition…
What’s on the tape for the next match?
About your explicit question, I don’t think any useful lessons about the World Championship can be gotten from this recording. It is unclear (to my eyes) whether the pinned red robot had its forks extended; and it is unclear whether they were protecting their snout by moving it out of harm’s way, or were hoping to reduce the pinning robot’s pushing strength, or were trying to tip the pinning bot completely over.
I’ll bet a second dollar that if Blue had not pushed (pinned) Red against the wall, that Blue would have kept all 4 wheels on the mat for the duration of the match.
Blake
The prongs were merely my descore and in the other video , you can clearly see it did not go under the bot.
This video should clear up what had happened.
http://www.justin.tv/bcittelevision/b/281442003 1:16:50 has a much clearer shot of what happened. I put my descore down so I could descore that blue ring they had just scored. Blue alliance’s claw had come entangled into my descore and I had simply lifted my arm up. I was not intentionally trying to flip them , but I was trying to untangle . Also , that robot does not seem to have a low CG to me …
I’ve never been able to get any of the JustinTV videos to display (Windows 7, quad-core i7, latest non-beta version of Firefox), but I’d really like to see this video some time. Anyone else having problems with it?
@ Rick
I have a similar config as you, except for the fact that I use chrome. The video works fine for me.
Fixed. Adblock Plus blocks video content on the site, probably because it runs an ad before the desired video.