June 15th Update Discussion

It’s that time of year, ladies and gentlemen :slight_smile:
Nothing earth-shattering was changed in the scheduled update, but there were still some edits. For example, adults can no longer be drive-team members!
So how do you all feel about the rule changes? Do you think that there are any particularly good or bad changes in the new update? Or is there anything that you feel should have been updated that was not?

(PS should this go in VRC Starstruck or chit-chat? :stuck_out_tongue: )

I didn’t see that yet, but if that is true it is long overdue!

Agreed. I always thought it was a strange choice considering how much we discourage mentors doing the students’ work.

Drive Team Member – Any of the three (3) Students allowed in the Alliance Station during a Match for each team. Only Student Drive Team Members are allowed to touch the controls at any time during the Match, interact with the Robot as per <SG3>, and interact with Scoring Objects as per <SG4>. Adults are not allowed to be Drive Team Members.

Aw darn, I was looking forward to coaching on-field post graduation. I do agree with the change though, it empowers the students more. That’s one of the main reasons why I enjoy VEX Robotics so much. I’m curious what prompted to make the change now.

SG6a: R.I.P. crazy wall bots that reach through the fence, April 22nd - June 15th.

I’m not so sure…

You cannot “contact” them. But if you extend a long barrier of some sort that doesn’t move you wouldn’t be contacting them. They would be contacting you when they run into your wall. And there is a rule that says you cannot do an action that intentionally causes another team to violate a rule, which they would be doing if they ran into you.

I’m not saying it is legal, but it seems to still be a real gray area. Now really sure what they were trying to do with that additional wording. Perhaps I’m misreading it?

Very happy to see a rule ensuring student-only drive teams. Aside from that, nothing revolutionary.

Contact between robots is legal, and such a wall would still be “intentionally restricting the movement of an opposing Robot”.

I agree that the new rule (or clause I coaguess?) is not entirely clear. It sounds like it was mostly meant to take the place of the missing pinning/trapping rule this year, but it’s not clear how generally it should be applied.

For example, is it legal to push or dump a pile of stars under/over the fence and then have an arm or cage or something that prevents your opponent from picking them up and tossing them back or does this constitute an illegal action to intentionally restrict their movement?

I guess the general question is does SG6a prohibit any actions to restrict movement such as keeping your opponents from getting to a small portion of the field or is it only meant to prohibit strategies aimed at holding your opponent in place such as pinning, trapping and the like.
Probably worth a Q&A imo especially since this is a rather odd/unprecedented rule.

Also, I for one don’t care for the student-only drive team change. I don’t see anything wrong with having alumni, parents, teachers, etc. go up to the field with the students and provide help, coaching etc, especially in the case of small teams that don’t have three students to fill out a drive team.

I agree with your analysis. On the whole, this rule seems cause more ambiguity instead of helping.

Also note how SG12 comes into play here.

“<G12> Strategies aimed solely at the destruction, damage, tipping over, disruption of Hanging, or
Entanglement of Robots are not part of the ethos of the VEX Robotics Competition and are not
allowed…”

Bold emphasis mine.

A valuable function of the wallbot this year, blocking off the area where the climbing pole is located, is illegal with the new update to SG12. How I pictured a robot blocking off the pole (if it were legal) is extending to block the tile closest to the pole. Blocking both robots from driving to the pole. But what if the wall extends from the center of the fence to the field perimeter (effectively splitting the opponent’s field in half), one robot can access the climbing pole while the other cannot. This effectively traps one robot. If the trapped robot has a climber and can’t access the pole, the wall is now illegal as of SG12. But have the wall not extend all the way (say, leave a 2 foot gap), and it is now legal again, assuming SG6a only applies to restricting movement through *contact. *

All this said, executing wallbots are especially difficult this year as the robot cannot contact the opponent floor.

I can guarantee that if wall bots try to segment the field, our strategy will be aimed at pushing the wall until it snaps or is bent into useless submission. So I assume the above does not apply if a purely defensive wall bot technique is used. I’m pretty sure it states somewhere else that it’s an offensive game and we have the right to act this way against a wall bot.

I would recommend thinking of this rule like this…
it’s LEGAL to restrict where the opposing robots have access to operate on their side of the fence (trapping stars on opponents side without touching their tiles).
it’s NOT LEGAL to restrict their ability to move from the space they currently occupy.

Passive blocking = OK
Active Trapping/Pinning/Restricting movement = NOT OK

I can’t wait to see some of these concepts in action. This is definitely going to be an interesting season. But like they say: the proof is in the pudding! We won’t know how effective any of these concepts will be until placed into battle.

Maybe this should go in the Q & A, but this sounds like it doesn’t disrupt hanging so much as it prevents a hang. I would guess that <G12> only applies after a potential hang is initiated.

Edit: G12, not SG12.

What I am most happy with is the detailed change log @Karthik published describing each change!

I’m so sad that you can’t latch onto the opposing hanging bar. I could care less if an opponent hanged, but with the ability to grab onto the opposing hanging bar, you actually had the possibility of building a rigid enough wall to zone your opponents and essentially create an “un-de-scorable” zone, giving you the potential for an auto win.

this is the first season where I don’t see an obvious auto-win strategy that’s actually executable

What was the auto-win strategy for NBN?

Horde all the balls in your corner and score those then shoot the driver loads then elevate.

Here’s the answer: https://vexforum.com/t/1-joystick-drive-code/16858/1

Looks like any kind of wall on the other side of the field is now illegal. RIP everyone’s wallbot hopes and dreams. I was really looking forward to that aspect of the game.

I feel especially bad for Meng’s team whose wallbot was made illegal 4 days before the Singapore Championship.

Yes me too. That must really stink.