June 15th Update Discussion

Pretty sure there has never been an “auto-win” strategy. Ever. If there was, all teams would have done it.

Auto-win strategies are never easy, but it was at least doable. Of course, an Auto-win should theoretically end in a tie if you face itself

Nothing But Net: Hoard all balls into the safe-zone and full court shot. Couldn’t de-score balls so once you reach the cap

Skyrise: Build the skyrise in autonomous as quickly as possible. Most commonly using a turntable. The autonomous bonus was the tie breaker no one could beat

Toss Up: Wallbots were the theoretical best, but no one could build it well enough. Autonomous was the turning point since everyone could fill the columns and stop opponents from getting to the opposing columns, and throwing equalized large balls. Hanging was still doable while maxing other systems

Sack Attack: This was a game of trades. I forgot the exact way to go, but you had to take advantage of the safe-trough (outer trough) versus the contested-trough(inner trough) due to de-scoring. The efficiency of the intakes made a gigantic deal

Gateway: Wallbot 2D robosavages. The main time they lost was against 599d, the pneumatic lift. The lift had so much power behind it that it could remove the tiebreaking center goal. Either way, 2D still won in the end. Though there is some discrepancy due to the illegal field latching mechanism

Toss up [sic] Round Up: Pick up moveable goals and put them under the ladder. Due to the mechanisms robots had that year, it was very difficult or impossible to de-score. Goal control bonuses also made the teams who did this succeed even more

Clean Sweep: Dump as many game objects off the field until the last few moments of the match, then dump everything to the opposing side. This game was the reason why you can’t throw objects off the field

Elevation: In all honesty I forgot. I think it had to do something with goal control

Bridge Battle: Not enough footage for me to tell

Quad Quandary (if you consider FVC): Grab the goals and feed into them while pushing movable goals into your zone

Hangin’-a-round: not enough footage

half pipe hustle: not enough footage

The closest I can think of this year is launching 17 or 18 stars at once in the last few seconds. That is a ridiculous amount of power needed. This power will easily bypass the material limitations of robots if they’re not built properly. Maybe catching stars are the way to go, or maybe its something with collecting from the wall. There’s no easy way to guarantee a win.

Isn’t that Round Up? :stuck_out_tongue:

Although, I argue that for Clean Sweep, the optimal strategy was to score your green balls into your triangular towers, then throw everything that came to your side of the field off of the field.

@DracoTheDragon Hoarding last year definitely didn’t work well enough to guarentee a win even if the other alliance didn’t do it. You still had to have the fastest efficiency bot.

Your skyrise “auto-win” strategy was just the regular efficiency strategy: score the most points fastest starting with auton.

An actual auto-win strategy should guarentee you a win no matter who you play against (unless you play against someone just like yourself). Many of these are just efficiency strategies that rely on you being faster than your opponents.

@DracoTheDragon Though some of those strategies could be considered chokehold, I have issues with many.

I don’t think that “winning auton” could really be considered a chokehold strategy for Skyrise. A wallbot such as VCAT’s (had it not broken) would be an example of a chokehold strategy for Skyrise. By only allowing your opponent access to 6 of their own color cubes, even if they won the autonomous bonus, the maximum they could score was 62, which you could beat by building a full Skyrise, filling it with (8) cubes, and scoring one cube on a post.

As for Gateway, it was 2W that had the wallbot that won the World Championship.

For Sack Attack, the true chokehold strategy was the trough coverer. By covering both of your opponents’ troughs, all your partner had to do was score a few sacks into one of your troughs and then block it. A few teams employed this strategy, including 1471A, and most importantly 40A, who not only blocked off both opponents’ troughs, but also their high goal.

For Clean Sweep, tossing objects out of the field was a good strategy, but in order for it to work really well you had to be able to fill the triangular goals with green balls. There were only a handful of teams who could do that well. Without filling the triangular goals, I wouldn’t really consider it a chokehold strategy (and even with it, it’s a stretch) because any robot that could score could throw objects out of the field. A better version of this chokehold strategy would be Driven Nuts’ catapult that would launch a large number of footballs over the wall at the end of the match.

Because no teams build wallbots in Elevation, there was no real chokehold strategy (in my opinion). Green Egg won because they could empty the autoloaders extremely well (something that most teams overlooked), could manipulate the bonus cube easily, had an extended reach to score into goals from rather far away, and had a strong drive and good drivers that allowed them to bully other teams around and push their way onto the platform at the end of the match. In order to get ownership of all the goals you had to have the top cube in the goal. If a team had successfully created a descoring apparatus, perhaps that could be considered a chokehold strategy, since goal ownership was worth 5 points, while each cube in the goal was only worth 1, meaning just securing the top cube of every goal as your color would have you at a 40-39 victory, even if every other cube scored in a goal was the opponents (ignoring the floor goal), even if the opponent won auton, controlled the bonus cube, and parked on the ramp. Even still, the opponent could place cubes on top of yours, but as long as you secured the topmost cube under the top of the goal, those could be easily knocked off.

There are still chokehold strategies for Starstruck, even with the rule changes. Just because a chokehold strategy is difficult does not mean it does not exist. In fact, most chokehold strategies in past games have been difficult to pull off. :slight_smile:

That’s a beautiful analysis, and yes, a lot of of your points are true. For example, I’ve forgotten to mention the importance of the green balls in the triangular goals of clean sweep (probably one of the most obvious reasons why that strategy worked since that was 3 times the normal value of the green balls). It’s surprising that a lot of my memory has been clouded to the point I missed critical details such as that.

However, I guess the essence of what I find critical in pasts games was that there was an aspect which gave teams a significant advantage over their opponents. Because of such, though it may be a misnomer, I call that an auto-win, which is more commonly known as a choke-hold strategy from karthik’s strategy video (if I recall correctly). However, just as you should treat your opponents with respect, you should give yourself the credit that once you have an advantage, you will not lose it (though as proven through so many sports and video game competitions, this is not always the case). Because of such, once you permanently gain a tie breaker with the capabilities of reaching an equalization point, I call that an autowin. There was some sort of single scoring method or rule that you could exploit to make the match significantly easier to play, assuming that every robot can be in fact built to equality. But this thread is about the june 15th update.

With the latching rule to the opposing hanging bar, I was hoping it was possible to create a zone which your opponent could not de-score your game pieces, creating that tiebreaker to help your team win. From my predictions and analysis of the game, I don’t feel that the trick to winning is from hanging or cubes, though they can definitely change the tide of the match if you mess up the autonomous period and star control. However, I feel star control will be the key to this year. But I don’t see any obvious strategy that I could personally execute to give a team an advantage.

As were many teams. Even without latching onto the opposing hanging bar this was possible (albeit more difficult). And there were also other chokehold blocking strategies, such as preventing the opponents from ever reaching the fence. This type of a strategy would have allowed the opponent to hang, and would have appeared to have been legal with the new rules (though Karthik has clarified that any type of robot expanding onto the other side of the fence would be easily disqualified). There continue to be blocking strategies, as well as scoring strategies that could be considered chokehold, and aren’t even much more difficult than those strategies that were made illegal.

Such as?