What’s wrong with this picture?
(hint: my teammate is pointing straight at it, and the adults there have been holding metal and tools all day…)
I would say something but they also host the competition…
Is that dude in the back working on a team’s robot?
I’m going to say the peeling paint and stucco indicates that there is some pretty bad water intrusion in that wall that needs to get attended to.
Why not go back and ask them what they are building? I zoomed in and that pile of metal is about as far away from a working robot you could expect. Based on what’s under your team mates elbow, he could be building a battery charger base.
Why are you thinking the worst? I walk around events all day with tools and pieces of metal in my hands. Are you going to accuse me of cheating without asking? Or are you going to do the simple thing and ask and get told, “I borrowed this length of C channel from Team XYZ (by the way they rock) to help out team ABC. Oh and when I went over there they had C channel they were willing to give me but it has stuff bolted on it, I took the extra parts off and left them there.”
Actually, that is our team’s battery charger. Additionally they were dremeling their sister team’s robot this morning,although I do not have a photo of that.
I do have more clear pictures and that is definitely the frame of a Starstruck robot.
I am with Foster on this one. Don’t assume the worse. Even if it is a Starstruck capable frame, it is just that, work in progress. No indication that it will be used in competition. Maybe a proof of concept for the club.
Why would they be building a robot from scratch at competition? Because that doesn’t look anywhere near usable.
Well he’s definitely building a robot. Doesn’t really matter if it’s finished or not, he shouldn’t really be doing that tbh. But hey, what can ya do ¯_(ツ)_/¯ welcome to vex m8
I’m sad, @phantom285A, just because I’m a mentor I can’t build robots? Almost 5 decades of building robots down the tubes? Who is going to build my demo bots? So my mentor training class where all the mentors build/work on the robot is done so they are an assist to roboteers needs to stop? Helping learning disabled roboteers comes to an end? (Done this lots in the past, makes a huge difference to someone that wants to try).
You want me to throw all that away?
I have to agree with Foster again (no surprise). Adults can build pretty much anything you want at my events, as long as you do not try to enter it in competition. After that it needs to adhere to competition rules as outlined in the game manual and official Q&A.
I understand where people are coming from with regards to adults building robots for their teams. However, I can not control what people do on their own time during competitions that does not impact the rules. That said, space is limited at a competition - what a team does with the space set aside for the team is their business, as long as, it does not impact other team spaces and resources.
Also, I have to raise an exception in public schools where we have adults working with students one on one due to identified impairments. I will considered such adults as extensions of the student working on the robots.
Again, nothing stands out in the pictures shown here.
lol no
To me, it seems pretty sketchy. I don’t know if they’re doing something wrong or not. But under these specific circumstances, I feel like they might be. Lets look at what’s going on:
1: There don’t seem to be any kids or other mentors nearby that may be helping out or learning
2: This is during competition
3: Apparently working on the robot the entire day
With just these 3 statements, I’m sure you could understand why it can be perceived that mentor might be doing something wrong here. Of course, you could always argue the explanations of what could be happening, (i.e. The picture could be taken at the moment when the students happened to have walked away) and you could also say that these things don’t necessarily mean that the team is cheating, and that is true. But in my perspective it seems more suspicious than not. In my previous post, I don’t think I used the right wording. Of course mentors should be allowed to build robots, but obviously not in malicious ways.
So just because it doesn’t impact you as a team makes it completely OK?
I do want to say that this thread is approaching some touchy subjects, however I hope it doesn’t get locked as I really think were having some interesting conversations here.
I am ok with the thread, I am questioning the jumping to conclusions about what is going on in two photos.
I see an adult male building a robot. I do not see any team impacted by the construction. I infer the robot is far from being competition ready. It clearly does not meet the robot inspection criteria and therefore cannot be considered a replacement robot. I do see a table being used, is it a spare, or is it intended for a team to use for competitions (we do have spares due to teams that do not show up). If it is a team space, I would question if it is a wise use of space. Your points about others being around are good, and in fact, I would encourage the learning opportunities. However, if the team and other mentors are not ready for such a learning opportunity it is not a problem for the event partner or other teams to be concerned with. It is their pit space, and no one else’s, to do as they wish as long as it does not violate the rules of competition and other team’s ability to work productively.
I don’t think I’m jumping to conclusions. And I don’t think I’m assuming the worst. I’m assuming what I think is likely. And what I think seems likely is a mentor building a team’s robot, it doesn’t matter if it’s finished or not. I don’t really think that’s acceptable, no matter what table it’s on or when it’s happening. Do you?
Nope - if the robot is being worked on all day, it did not make inspection early morning. So, it is not in play. It is another matter if the person finished the robot and it was inspected. No evidence of that either.
Look carefully, no wheels, gearing, cortex… etc. Not an operational bot in my book. Just structure as far as I can see. As Foster indicated, it could be a mentor/teacher trying to show a different approach for the team based on what they saw during the day.
Later in the competition, we saw the adults attaching what they were building to a competition bot. Demo bots are one thing but the adults made a large chunk of this team’s bot.
Theres a reason why he didn’t state the team number…
Unless you’re the freaking CIA, you won’t figure out who this person is.
Last post of we have pictures, we assume, it’s clear to us, assuming… Ugh
Go over, introduce yourself, ask in a nice way what they are doing. Go from there.
If they are indeed building an all adult robot without any roboteers on the team, remind them of the rules. If they are doing something else thank them, tell them if they need anything you’ll be happy to help and walk away. Who knows they could have been stuck and you could have been a help.
You all have exerted more effort than a 30 second conversation would have taken.
Both @lacsap and I have taken the high road in this, you can try now.
Probably best to clear the images from this thread unless your intention is to give the team (and the individual) a bad reputation - it’s extremely easy to identify the team from your pictures, as well as what you’ve said in text.
I’ve seen this kind of thing at Arizona competitions from a couple of teams, and it has certainly worked its way into our traditional post-tournament Culver’s conversations… But I don’t think it’s mature to post a picture like this on an international forum.
I’m guessing that the OP was basing the content of this post off more than the pictures he posted, and there was a general pattern of behavior that made it very clear that this mentor was working on the robot. And, I’m going to go out on a limb and say it is a logical conclusion; this is usually the case in these situations. But I’m also going to agree with those who said you can’t know for certain, which is one of the reasons why I don’t think it’s okay to post these pictures.
We’ve seen these teams with mentors clearly providing more help than is justifiable (“Hey coach, we can’t fix this on our own, come down here and do it for us while we stand around and chat!” Yeah, I wonder who built it then). But trust me when I say it is very gratifying to beat them. I don’t think adults have any big advantage over students when it comes to VEX. My advice would be to work harder and beat them anyway. My first year, I only learned the very basics. Last year, my second year of VEX, we had a rough start but I figured things out and with my awesome teammates built a robot that I’m still very proud of (RIP Glaedr).
We all kind of need to be careful with making accusations though, as they are sometimes baseless. I seem to remember whispers of people thinking mentors build our robots. I actually find that hilarious, considering our mentors don’t even know enough to give us advice on robots. They basically just fulfill the school’s requirement that we have an adult in the room making sure we don’t cut our hands off, and also fill out necessary paperwork, for which we are extremely grateful. But, they certainly don’t build our robots. And my friend, who is on a team of himself, has also had another team at Worlds straight-up ask his parents which one of them built his robot, to which their answer was of course neither. The lesson here is that quality is not an indicator of whether or not a mentor is building a team’s robot.
Well anyway, sometimes I just post EVERYTHING I think about a subject just so it gets articulated. So here’s another post like that I suppose…
Uhhhh, none of you are wearing safety glasses?
That is indeed sad piece of information, but not complete as to what is going on with team that day. Unfortunately, not against the rules of competition (at least in the USA). As others have indicated, do not think the worse. If you are bothered by activity that does not seem correct, you can go find the Event Partner (we are the people who are everywhere:) ). The Event Partner can speak with the team if needed, or if a really unique situation, consult with the RECF Regional Manager (on speed dial!).
However, in terms of Starstruck rules, if they went into a match without having an inspection of the modified bot (looks to be a new subsystem), that would be a violation of rules.