I was watching some of the matches from the Kalahara classic and it looks like the refs were not enforcing the rule that if you knock a cube into your opponent’s side during auton that you automatically lose auton. Why is that? Were they just not informed?
During the drivers meeting the head ref stated it only counts if it interferes with your opponents auton. I knew about the ruling on the Q and A and I was going to ask them about it, but I never got around to it. Was stuck working on my bot.
Rule G11 states “Any infractions committed during the Autonomous Period that are not Match Affecting, but do affect the outcome of the Autonomous Bonus, will
result in the Autonomous Bonus being automatically awarded to the opposing Alliance.”
The key is “affect the outcome of Autonomous”. The referees probably determined that in most cases, it did not affect the outcome.
I think according to Q&A 405 https://www.robotevents.com/VEXU/2019-2020/QA/405
the auton bonus should be awarded to the opposing alliance if cubes roll over from your side of the field.
I know. That’s why I am surprised to see the rule not enforced at a Signature event.
I hope REC clarifies how they will rule on this before our State Championships.
The rule being violated in these cases isn’t <G11>. The relevant rule is <SG2>:
Pushing a cube across the line is a violation of <SG2> via <SG7>:
and confirmed by this Q&A entry:
(emphasis mine in all quotes)
So yes, pushing a cube across the line should result in at least an autonomous loss, even if the infraction did not affect the opponent’s autonomous period.
WPI Signature Event followed this as it was an Official Q&A response from GDC.
I wish Q&As were answered more frequently.
That’s just great. Two signature events run at the same time, following different rules
I am not sure they have conf calls for head referees to review such things. Maybe that’s something to consider.
Also, let’s be clear - at both events the Head Referees did address the situation at Drivers Meeting. So, it was not a case of not being informed of the expectations.
A bit too late – we are basically writing a 7 point auton for when the ref will enforce the rule, and an 8 point auton for when the ref will not enforce the rule. A bit of wasted time.
During the recent Sing Nationals, we followed the rules as stated in Q&A.
Many teams actually needed to modify their autonomous routines to make it “safer”… at the expense of getting more cubes.
GDC should really just make a stand on this… especially with more and more high-stake competitions taking place.
Then don’t write an autonomous routine that violates the rule - it is reasonable to assume that the rule will be enforced correctly.
If you’re concerned about enforcement of this rule at a particular event, that’s a good opportunity to ask your head ref about it, and politely bring the relevant Q&A entry to their attention if they’re not already aware of it. We don’t bite, most of us are quite happy to discuss stuff like this with team members - I’d rather someone let me know I’m getting something wrong than keep getting it wrong all season.
speak up at the drivers meeting. bring a printed copy of the Q&A. show the ref that cubes cannot cross that line. that way you won’t have to worry about loosing auton to a team that writes a high scoring (but illegal) auton.
That’s the current plan. Programmers will raise this at every driver meeting.
But since we don’t know how the ref will rule, we will bring auton for each ruling case in point is how the refs at the two signature events ruled differently even though they were aware of the Q&A decision
I have not seen anything in this thread to suggest that the refs at Kalahari knew about the Q&A ruling. If they did, and they chose to enforce the rule differently anyway, that would be a different, more serious issue.
In any case, the ruling is quite clear (IMO), and it is your duty as a team to comply with the rules as written and interpreted. Knowingly violating a rule specifically because you know the refs are getting the rule wrong is not OK IMO, and could be construed as a violation of the code of conduct:
We expect the following behavior and ethical standards at all REC Foundation-sanctioned events:
- Follow all rules as listed in the current game manual(s)
So it seems like they knew about it and interpreted in a different way.
I don’t think it is a violation of the code of conduct if we ask about it and follow whatever interpretation the refs will follow for that tournament.
I want to avoid a situation where we bring a 7 point auton, our opponents bring an 8 point auton, and the ref decide that it will only cause a auton loss if it interferes with our auton.
So is China gonna redo their national competition or something because nearly every match I see has a cube cross in auton.
This whole thing is a big hassle because you are put at a competitive disadvantage if you don’t have both a safe and a potentially illegal auton coded.
At our last comp we were told that knocking cubes over was illegal the RECF guy but the head ref never ruled that way even when a team brought it up to him after cubes were knocked across.
no. events aren’t going to be redone because a rule was misinterpreted.
respectfully show the ref the q&a, and explain the rule. it pretty clearly states that auton goes to the other team if your cubes cross the line, regardless of the effect it had, all refs should be able to see this and make rulings correctly based on this.