Knocking Towers over

Is it legal if you make a stack off cubes outside the goal zone and then tip it over knocking the opponents cube stacks over?

This a hypothetical scenario.

Nope, cubes cannot be used to do something that would be illegal for a robot to do.

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What if it is by accident?

Um… so you will “accidentally” stack 7 cubes?
Hate to break it to ya, but you kinda can’t stack cubes by “accident”.

(also even if its an accident, you still get DQed)

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If they have two stacks of 9, and you stack 5 cubes and knock them over it is worth it.
Also if you can’t do anything else.

But that is highly illegal. I don’t think getting DQed would be worth it at all.

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In the game manual (https://www.robotevents.com/events/38971/uploads/4890/download), take a look as SG-3 point F.

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@EagleBots So I see what you are getting at, and what I believe you mean is setting a trap. The real question is can you precariously stack blocks in a way that if you opponents run into it wrong, it might fall into their own stack, knocking it over. I would assume this is legal, because you are not (directly or indirectly) contacting their scored cubes. Again, simply placing a stack near the opposing robots zones is legal. If you knock that stack into any scored cubes, that would be illegal. If the opponents unfortunately knocked the stack into their own scored cubes, it would be legal.

If your robot rams an opponent, knocking a block out of their tray, which knocks over their stack, illegal.
If your robot traps an opponent near their goal zone, and said opponents, while trying to escape, knock over their own stack, legal.

The time and effort wasted trying to descore in this game is not valuable.

  • Score faster
  • Ram them while trying to score in the goal zone
  • Gather up some of your opponents most numerous color (reducing the number available for towers)
  • Box your opponents out
  • Dominate the towers
  • Pin and ram opposing robots with full stacks trying to get into a scoring position

These are your best tools for success in the game.

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You will get disqualified for doing that, even if it’s by accident

What if you stack them in front of enemy goal, then enemy knock them into their own stack?

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you could create a 4stack wall around the middle of the protected zone (3 stacks) and prevent them from getting in to stack a 2nd stack.

I don’t see how it is practical, but it may work?

Yeah, and you wouldn’t even need a wall. 1-2 small stacks would be good enough to make it dangerous for the other team to stack

Is it legal to place stacks in the other team’s protected zone, though?

should be; doesn’t violate sg3. If someone finds another rule it violates maybe its illegal, but it should be legal

Sure, you could place a stack of cubes in an unscored position, and your opponent could knock them down at their own risk, or move them into their own scoring position…but why not spend your time scoring stacks into your own goal, and strategically placing cubes into the towers as multipliers?

Just to clarify: your opponent is not your enemy…and it’s not particularly sportsmanlike to refer to them as such. That “enemy” might be your alliance partner in a different match.

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Because it’s more fun to play defense. Like this.ezgif-6-4bb4f5bafa32
Why win when you can have fun?

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While that is legal from the standpoint of not knocking over scored towers (since it isn’t yet scored), my leaning would be to say that it violates the below SG6 regarding keeping cubes in the field. Since there would be no practical way to avoid having many of those cubes leave the field with that action, I’m thinking this might qualify as intentionally removing them. Not sure how it plays in that they removed them indirectly, but since it clearly happened due to the opponent’s push that might bring into play G14 (forcing opponent to violate a rule)? Of course the team that got pushed then didn’t intentionally do it, so…? I would not be at all surprised for a team to get warned or disqualified for doing the above type of defense; it might be a good one to clarify with Q&A.

SG6 Keep Cubes in the field. Teams may not intentionally remove Cubes from the field. While Cubes may accidentally leave the field when attempting to Score, doing so intentionally or repeatedly would be a violation of this rule. Cubes that leave the field during Match play, intentionally or unintentionally, will not be returned. Minor violations of this rule that do not affect the Match will result in a warning. Match Affecting offenses will result in a Disqualification. Teams that receive multiple warnings may also receive a Disqualification at the Head Referee’s discretion.

G14 You can’t force an opponent into a penalty. Intentional strategies that cause an opponent to violate a rule are not permitted, and will not result in an infraction on the opposing Alliance. Minor violations of this rule that do not affect the Match will result in a warning. Match Affecting offenses will result in a Disqualification. Teams that receive multiple warnings may also receive a Disqualification at the Head Referee’s discretion.

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This seems to be very valid and a correct interpretation of the rule as written.

How about pushing cubes into somebody’s goal zone so that they can’t get to the goal?

I hadn’t looked at it this way, but I am definitely on the fence. They used the word intentionally. As in,

  • “you may not remove cubes from the field if your intent is for them to no longer be on the field.”

So as I interpret it, the goal of SG6 is so you cannot remove cubes of your opponents most numerous color to prevent them from scoring, or some other strategy aimed at removing free cubes without scoring them. Try this idea:

  • Red alliance attempts to remove their alliance tower cube to replace it with another. However their robots can only push the block out forwards. If they were to change block colors, but they are incapable of doing so without pushing the block out (100% chance of the block leaving the field).

The only way I can figure that Red would intentionally remove it (trying to remove the block from play) would be if they put it there, and then push it out, with sufficient time left for blue to have responded and gathered the block. If they do it at the end of the match, it matters not. The word “intentionally” is throwing me for a loop here.

  • Red team’s auton almost always causes a block to fall out.

This puts them at a disadvantage, and would not be intentional, but it would be repeated, which could be a violation. I am curious if you would issue a warning to them about further violations?

  • Red is quicker to score, so a Red robot collects several remaining blocks in the last 30 seconds of play, goes to blue side near their stack, and lifts their tray to vertical. Any team that rams them or attempts to knock blocks out would either knock the block out of bounds or possibly cause the blue robot to break rule SG3 and contact the scored blocks. Therefore they can simply camp with those blocks because they are protected.

I dont have answers for some of these hypotheticals because of how soft the rule is given only cases of “intentional or repeated”.
That leaves us with the situation in question.

  • Red team is attempting to score in the Goal zone. Blue team wants to defend.

If blue team rams red like in the video, they are almost certain that the blocks will leave the field. Defending this way is reliant on the other team’s stack falling out to work. Otherwise it is a waste of time. To ram the bot is to expect the blocks to leave the arena, and that will give you an advantage, both in their cubes being gone and their stack not being scored.

If blue team swings around uses their tray to impede red team’s tilting, they can stop the tower from making it all the way up. If blocks fall, there is a good chance they will fall within the field, and defending would still be effective without relying on cubes leaving the field.

Conversely, the defenders never intended to remove the cubes. Intent was to prevent red team from scoring. Additionally, it was one event, not multiple so it doesn’t meet the definition of “repeatedly” when it occurs only once.

I am still confused, and will probably put this on the official Q&A. Does intentionally performing an action, that you know definitely will remove blocks from the field for a reason other than to remove blocks, violate SG6?

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It has generally been ruled that if you perform an action that, in and of itself, does not have the intent of violating a rule, yet does, then you could (and probably should) be given a warning. If after the warning, you continue to perform that action, you do run the risk of being DQed. I would place this situation under that category. If you bump an opponent and it causes cubes to leave the field, even if that is not the intent, to me means that should you continue to do it, knowing that cube will leave the field as a result, then at that point, you are intentionally causing the cubes to leave the field and are in violation. And repeatedly means within a match or from match to match, not necessarily from event to event. (Although in te latter case, if it is the same referee then you might be under additional scrutiny,

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