As many of you know, last year at worlds there was a whole thing about people illeagally using lubricants. This year they’ve added a rule specifically against it. I would like to give my thoughts on this, as I highly think this is a bad idea. The fact is teams are going to cheat and use lube reguardless of the rule. I know teams who already planned on how there gonna hide it at worlds. So why not just make it legal? Why not level the playing field? Vex is about building after all, having better working mechanisms using a available resource isn’t bad. I think we need to stop viewing lube as the problem, when it could really be the solution. I sincerely hope this is see and somebody makes it legal in the next update, despite how unrealistic that is. Right now, I’m disappointed to spend 1800 dollars and 1000s more atop this to go to a competition I physically cant win.
I would also like to add I’v started a petition, despite my doubts it will go anywhere. Link is here.
I’d vote for it as in the V5RC Game manual they say that Lubricants are allowed under (R8) and its a way to prepare kids for older years if they choose to continue robotics under vex robotics.
Absolutely, couldn’t agree more. If they just made dry WD-40 legal it’d go a long way. And they can tell people not to overdue it just like they do in V5 and theres been no issues with that.
I’m having a hard time knowing why lubricants are needed in VIQ. Unless you are building a shooter, there isn’t that much friction.
If there are people cheating, report the method to RECF on how they are doing it and hiding it. It will help their inspection process.
Then don’t go. Find something else to do with the $5K. That’s enough to start 3 new VEX IQ teams and inspire a dozen new roboteers.
First of all, not thinking its needed just isn’t true. If you compare teams with lube vs. teams without, it is absurd.
Second, shooters wouldn’t require lube? Lube is primarily used on fast spinning stuff like rollers to keep friction down. Not really needed on a high torque mechanism.
And third the “don’t go” reason I find redundant, as its not enough to constitute not going but it is very frustrating. The United States of America has its problems but there are very few citizens who think its bad enough to move. Does that mean we just don’t fix the problem? Absolutely not. We work to improve it. Which is what I’m doing with this petition.
I’m going to reply to your top part first and put my own opinion on this.
Friction is a huge part in drive trains, intakes, as you stated, launchers and basically any mechanism that uses axles and motors. For the cheaters that aren’t getting caught, the reason they aren’t getting caught is because they are in competitions with many other teams that use lube. That makes it harder to point out specific teams that are using it. I understand that at worlds, they are more strict on that and in history, there has been many teams using lube, but because dry lube is sometimes very hard to see or notice, many teams get away with it.
Ok now I will reply to your second part.
I just have to agree with you on the part where you said to start new teams, but sometimes it’s about giving teams what they earned. Personally, if I was qualified for worlds because of ____ award and realized I can’t go because brand new teams are being made, I would be very disappointed. It’s a moral question beyond that. Would you rather have a team get what they earned or give other teams more opportunities for learning.
In my time in IQ, I reported over 10 teams with complete and clear evidence of their very illegal activities and its affect on other teams, from buying Chinese robots to mass producing/using/selling instructions for robots. I never recieveds a reply, and 4 of the teams I reported made it to dome and worlds using their illegally obtained robots.
From what I have heard from other teams, this experience is not exclusive to me, to such a degree that it seems that the REC either ignores those emails or no longer pays attention. Illegal robots and organizations are something that need to be fixed, but unfortunately Vex and REC prefer the money of selling to/providing for those teams than actually doing something.
there is more than one kind of shooter… like fly wheels… and those do spin really fast so there’s that. Also I’m also having a really hard time believing that Lube is what separates the div winning teams and the those who don’t. If you have some hard video proof that shows 2 robots side by side with exact build qual, weight and desighn with and with out lube. then i would be a lot more beleiving. But overall i think that the ability to Tune, drive and program well definitley outweigh lube. Good build quality and keping things square and smooth is more important in reducing friction than lube.
Additionally, reporting teams isn’t the solution; its the problem. If we report teams that will just push them to be more secretive increasing the benefits of those who cheat even more. And to an extent I can’t blame these teams. Who wants to go to worlds with an amazing robot, just to know its near impossible to win?
Agreed, I didn’t think about flywheels but lube does help them. And yes, it does separate good and great teams. And while good build quality and such is more important, doing both makes intakes absurdly fast, especially in a game where fast intakes are so prevalent do to phase loading. And there are 1:1 whole counts comparing each, however I don’t know how to show them without the teams getting mad at me so I will refrain from that.
I am all for legalizing lubrication.
From a coach’s point of view , most kids have not been exposed to other machines, mechanisms, engines, etc. Therefore, VEX is the introduction most participating kids have to machines and not learning that moving parts need to be lubricated is a missed learning opportunity. Compound this with the fact that the lack of lubrication means that parts wear from optimal within the first few runs.
Also, anyone that says that lube can’t make the difference between winning and losing is not serious. If you are competing against the best in the world, the margins are razor thin between the best teams and the ones just behind them. This is what makes VEX fun for great competitors, but to kid yourself that you will just out-build the best teams in the world while dealing with a built-in disadvantage is silly. The ones arguing for it to continue to be illegal are quite seriously the ones I would suspect of using lube. Even if you argue that it doesn’t make much difference you are admitting that it does make some difference, and some is enough in certain situations. Only reason for teams to pursue something that is illegal is because it works.
After going to worlds last year, I saw robots do some things that looked very questionable at best. Obviously, there was lubrication involved as it was well documented. I also question if motors are equal but that is outside this discussion. Then the solution to being caught with lubrication is that you had to wipe it off. Next time you eat something greasy (think chicken wings) just wipe your hands off and let me know if there is still anything on your hands. This amount of grease still remaining is all that is needed for an advantage.
One of two things should absolutely happen:
Option 1 - Much more strict inspections and inspections of moving mechanisms prior to each round. Alongside this should be significant penalties including immediate expulsion from the event. We can find ways to allow for vacant spots to be remedied. Add in the potential for organization penalties for any organization caught utilizing any substance or item that is not allowed, forcing coaches to police their own teams. Also, after the competition, don’t hesitate to impound and disassemble winning robots. This is common practice for motorsports.
Option 2 - Legalize the Items that are difficult to inspect. This is a much easier path to a fair outcome.
I’m having a hard time knowing why lubricants are needed in VIQ. Unless you are building a shooter, there isn’t that much friction.
Thats extremely laughable.
Like Timmy, I think there is far more you can do for a robot than lube. But I’m happy that I made you laugh enough for to make a first post. Welcome to the forum!
Instead of trying to go against the community, they will have the opportunity to collaborate and interact with the community by not going against what the illegal “lubers” are doing, but to encourage it and encourage growth in the VEX IQ community and to get them ready for VEX V5. In all, Vex should allow the use of lube because it is close to impossible to know how and when you use lube so there should be the option to always be able to use lube.
Rules are rules. Respect them. If you want to change it go through the proper channels. Don’t cheat because others “are doing it”. You can hold your head high and still respect yourself. I honestly think cheaters should be immediately disqualified and sent home. and their administration notified of the violation.
I am not going to cheat. This will never be my intention. I’m simply trying to spread awareness of a big issue. Im fighting to reduce broken rules.
This is a program that 8-year-olds do. They can’t use WD-40. It’s not going to happen.
If you want to do a competition that uses lubricants, it’s time for you to do something else. I’d recommend V5RC. Most of the teams at MS IQ WORLDS should have switched already. You’ll probably like it a lot.
Completely agree with you take that rules are rules and to respect them. Also agree that cheaters should be immediately disqualified, and I assume you would want them removed from the competition with a logical way of allowing their would-be partners teams to have their matches with partners in some random approach.
Building some level of awareness on the official Vex forum seems like a proper channel to create momentum to change the rule. I respect that the OP is bringing this to light prior to Worlds rather than waiting until it is a disappointment for many again.
Good for you trying to accomplish something on this. This was a mess last year and not handled well at all. I sure hope a reasonable approach to this issue is found. Rules that aren’t or can’t be enforced only hurt the honest teams.