Liftability

Now that teams have had time to begin building and testing their robots, i was wondering how developments on lifting other teams was going. How are factors like size, weight and height affecting designs? Furthermore what are tentative weights for teams that have their initial robots built? i think this is important for those who wish to build lifting mechanisms.

I think the best elevation design is one that can accommodate for all base sizes, but if we talk about it realistically, that is not possible. So, the other best option is for teams to have a standard size base so ramp-builders can just make one standard size to fit most, if not all, robots into.

Weight would be an important factor this year. While doing some testing with our elevation, our team managed to bend all our shafts used in our elevation mechanism. They were mostly reduced to this state

https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0B_yOY43_s-T6fi1NZGRESXQ2QXljMEtLN2hNeWMySFJXSEVLMDZ0cE0wUEFWb2ZCSTJGR3M

https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0B_yOY43_s-T6fi1NZGRESXQ2QXljMEtLN2hNeWMySFJXSEVLMDZ0cE0wUEFWb2ZCSTJGR3M

(I’ve attached the files if the link doesn’t work)

So if you were thinking when to invest in high strength shafts, I think the time is now.

But basically elevation would be relatively hard without any consistent design standard. If you don’t have a consistent design standard, factors like size and weight can make a huge difference.
Screen Shot 2015-07-05 at 2.09.59 pm.jpg
Screen Shot 2015-07-05 at 2.10.06 pm.jpg

I think that’s exactly the reason Vex incorporated elevation into Nothing But Net. There IS no consistent design standard, and that is what makes this element of the game difficult. If it was easy, everyone would do it, and elevation will definitely separate the good alliances from the great ones.

thats why i just wanted to get a hint on what different teams are cooking up. weight is probably one of the biggest factors because some teams don’t have access to aluminum.

The beauty of a ramp is that the lifting power is supplied by the robot being lifted. If a robot is heavier, its drivetrain needs more torque for driving, so it should have more power for driving up ramps as well.

I completely agree with that and that is why I fully devote my lifting to a ramp. However structural integrity is something I have to consider when building the ramp. I want to build a ramp that can accommodate to most robot weight classes. That’s why I want to get a general idea of what weight most robots will be approximately

Teams building ramps should not only consider the ability to lift their alliance, but should also think of whether their alliances are fit to climb their ramps. Some robot bases are smaller, the width of the wheels are decreased. As a result, building a ramp with very little area for them to climb up would result in an unsuccessful elevation.

Also, we must take into account the angle at which you would like to set your ramp at. Most robots would pretty much skid if the angle of the ramp is too steep. Teams with weak bases or heavy robots may also be unable to climb ramps due to the high opposing forces such as Gravity and Weight.

I would love to see what teams come up with by putting their poll under “others”. It will be interesting! :slight_smile:

Probably a ramp with locks placed periodically to hold a robot up once it is disabled.

What my team has thought of for the issue of the other robot size is to max out our robot as close as possible to the 18x18x 18 box. This way our ramp is actually larger than 18" since it will start in the diagonal position. We would then just take a sheet of polycarbonate and put that on top with a possible winching that I am think about right now.

The trick will be to find a way to actually elevate the other team. I was thinking of possibly doing some sort of draw bridge design were the ramp is hooked up to HS shafts on one side then gearing another sort of winch with a form of string or small rope to the top of the tower the HS shafts would be on. I would then connect the other end of the string to the bottom of my ramp. The pulling of the string and resistance of the mounted HS shaft would then lift the ramp, possibly with the help of a linear motion kit for support.

I’ve attached a crude drawing of what I was thinking
[ATTACH]9492[/ATTACH]

Any comments or critiques on this design would be helpful as we have not done any tests on this design, its all theoretical.
6419A winch ramp design.jpg

I’m pretty sure i understand what you’re trying to do “MCE”. i think there is a youtube video of a team doing just that. my worry with that design is the motor devotion needed to effectively execute. How do you plan on confronting this?

I’m not quite sure I fully understand what you’re asking TheSheev. Are you asking were and how we would use our motors?

Yes, I agree with the Sheev when he says that it would take an awful amount of motor devotion to this. How do you plan on incorporating a ball launcher/intake mechansim with it? Remember you can only have 12 motors or 10 motors & pneumatics. Could you possible do this passively by say, bumping into a wall?

We would probably encompasses the intake and launching mech into the ramp itself. The launcher (flywheel) would be at the front of the ramp or below the front of it. The intake would be a convayor type system built into the center of the ramp. I don’t have access to my rough drawings as of right now so I’ll try to post them as soon as I can. The devotion of motors is in those drawings.

i hear about many teams that plan on transferring the power from their launchers to the lifting idea but the question is how. Transmissions were easy with pneumatics but it is unlikely that they will be used as much as they are nowadays considering the popularity and advantages of 12 motors. so do you (or anyone else) have any good ideas on how to utilize motors for extraneous tasks on command?

It wouldn’t be overly difficult to have spinning a flywheel backwards lift a ramp. Just need a ratchet system on each of course.

Would be interesting to see at the very least and as long as you concentrate the inefficiency to only be while lifting it might even be cost effective.

I’ve been experimenting with ratchets but I can’t seem to find any way in which it is both efficient and concise. any ideas?

I can say that there are at least two that are very effective. At least one of which was already revealed a few years back.

If you could Complexist would you mind sharing the system that has already been revealed? it seems that I haven’t been able to find anything in all of my youtube and forums trawling. I understand that any mechanism that you have developed is personal but if you want to share and possibly wring out the pros/cons and the execution please privately message me.

I can name a few off the top of my head. 44’s high hang in Toss Up used a ratchet made of a shaft hitting nuts on a 60-tooth gear. 62 also showed one on a flywheel in their Robot in 3 days documentary (not to be confused with their reveal). 1107B’s gateway robot, the Super Stacker, also had a ratchet intake made of gears and polycarbonate, although their videos seem to show that it had a great deal of friction.

Thanks for those! Ill be checking those out as soon as i get a spare moment