Is it okay to place all rings - match load (9 rings) in a pre-formed arrangement using fixture and introduce in the tile ?
See Q&A 1019:
https://www.robotevents.com/VRC/2021-2022/QA/1019
question #2, is it legal to use a mechanism to release match load rings on the field? we made a way to place 4 match load rings on the field at the same time (and legally placed) by squeezing the handle. nothing in the rules says that match load rings must be set down by a drive team member/ without the help of a mechanism, so does that mean that this is legal? i know a rule making this illegal was included in past manuals, but this year it is not.
There are no rules prohibiting this; therefore, it is legal.
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Then why teams need to develop the intake mechanism for rings?
Using - any additional metal during the game is illegal right? That touches the field?
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Seeing as Tilden used a fixture to place rings on the field for the entirety of the Create US Open I think it’d be fine. Additionally it does not state anywhere in the manual that it is not allowed.
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No where in the manual says it is allowed to use external metal.
The Q&A, which is a direct extension of the game manual (per the game manual itself), states that using a mechanism to place match load rings onto the field is legal.
However, is there anywhere in the manual that explicitly states that it is not allowed to use a mechanism to score match loads onto the field? As the GDC said in their Q&A response:
There are no rules prohibiting this; therefore, it is legal.
And, as AA1353 said:
A team at the U.S. Open (that made it to divisional finals!) had a very innovative design using match loads. They had a mechanism that would release 8 rings onto the field, and then a mechanism on the robot would pick them up and lift them to the tall goal’s top branch. If they were able to make it this far in a high-level tournament using their mechanism without being disqualified or warned, then it’s fairly likely that using a mechanism to place match load rings is legal.
EDIT: I just remembered a good example of another use of “external metal” that a lot of teams often use on the field: Autonomous setup! A lot of teams will use some sort of object as a “guide” to line up their autonomous. This is a common practice, and has not been deemed illegal.
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They made it to semifinals, not divisional finals.
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Oh, wasn’t sure. Thanks for the clarification. I do believe that it would’ve still been noticed if it were illegal, however.
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That was before the game - Stencils
Not during the game. In this cases - First that metal was not inspected. Second it was detached from the robot. Third that metal touches field and tiles, and make the pre-formations of rings
as for the why teams would choose to collect and load rings from the field instead of in the all at once, match load method, there could be a few reasons. Teams could be using a ring intake which is already used for alliance goals and so requires no additional intake mechanisms, or maybe teams would want the loading of rings to be something that can be attempted multiple times, with placing rings all at once, if something goes wrong there aren’t enough match loads to try again. While if you load rings on from an intake, one ring missing isn’t a big deal because you can always just grab another.
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not illegal for any of these reasons because this additional thing does not count as part of your robot. it’s simply a placement mechanism, which are explicitly noted as legal in the q&a.
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Can u please share a Q&A here? Thanks a lot.
There’s really no difference: technically, you’re not supposed to be touching the field at all during a match. SG8 simply makes an exception to this for the sole purpose of placing match loads. If we really want to get technical as to what the definition of a “robot” is in VEX’s eyes (per R1), a robot contains three “subsystems”: a wheelbase, a legal control system, and (optionally) other mechanisms to manipulate scoring elements. A mechanism to release match loads doesn’t even count as one of these subsystems in the first place (maybe it could count as a mechanism to manipulate scoring elements?), let alone a full robot. Therefore there is no need for it to be inspected.
It is not part of a robot either. It is technically “detached” from the robot, but is no different from an autonomous stencil in that way. So, if stencils are legal, there is no reason that a match load scorer should be illegal.
And also, again, contact with the field means nothing. The closest you’ll get to a rule prohibiting contact with the field during match play is G9, and it specifically states there is an exception made for match loads (rule SG8).
The Q&A was noted in one of my original posts: match load questions : Robot Events
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- Rings should always be oriented such that the “raised” portions are parallel to the Platforms, i.e. that they “rock” in the same directions that the Platforms do. See Figure 20.
this is referring to the starting position of rings on the field, not about match loads or preloads placed by people.
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Where is written - Match load can be placed vertically?
The manual says that
<Match Load Rings must be gently placed onto one of the gray foam tiles directly in front of the Alliance Station, i.e. the tiles coincident with the field perimeter wall. See Figure 23.>
There is no specification on the orientation. So it can be placed in any direction.
Also where does it say that it can not be placed vertically… It does not.
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This seems to be a recurring theme here in this conversation. I would just like to note here that if nothing in the rulebook states something is illegal, then it is legal (unless a Q&A happens to rule otherwise… in this case, a Q&A ruled the exact opposite: that it is legal.) If every single scenario had to be documented in the game manual, it would be the length of an encyclopedia and we would have practically no referees. In fact, this is the entire reason the Q&A exists: so that people can get clarifications for edge cases, or if there’s just a rule they’re uncertain about.
I figure this rule should be taken in context, as it does not apply to match loads.
G19 states to “be prepared for minor field variance” (which refers to the starting position of the field), mentions tolerances for the scoring elements (you can place match loads anywhere you can reach, so this doesn’t really make sense if the rule were to apply to match loads), and G19a states that “Scoring Object placement at the beginning of Matches may vary from nominal to ±1.5”. This rule is not about match loads: it is about the field setup at the beginning of a match.
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IQ teams with 6 motors - they are taking the rings from the fields, sorting rings, batching rings, loading rings in poles.
Robotics and automation is all about batch processing.
With Eight motors expecting a prefabricated batching of rings will defeat the intent of innovation. IMO
In Worlds I guess these questions will be raised. Several international teams have been working all along picking, batching and loading from the floors from beginning of the season.
so you’re arguing that you shouldn’t be allowed to use match loads in this way because it takes away from the fielding aspect of the game?
using match loads is simply a strategic choice which has been available to every team since the beginning of the season. Teams that chose not to use this, and instead to pick rings up from the ground made a completely valid and viable strategic decision, as did teams that did opt to use match loads to this way.
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