More game manual updates?

Will there be any more updates to the starstruck game manual? I thought I read that the manual was final as of August 17, 2016, but I can’t find were I saw that. I am asking because I want in-manual definitions of pining, trapping and grabbing as seen in the “infamous” <SG6A>. Is there any hope of these definitions being added to the manual?

The manual became “official” after the August update. Before that I guess it was considered a draft. I’m not really sure what the difference is since events take place before the manual becomes “official” every year.

There is one more scheduled update about a month before worlds. The exact date is in the back of the game manual.

In my opinion the best way to clear up the current ambiguity would be to make a new rule that “Robots are not allowed to restrict access to scoring objects on the other side of the fence.” This seems like the only way to make what Karthik wants to be illegal illegal without making normal match play illegal.

That said, I agree that concepts such as trapping should have manual definitions, especially if they are different than they were in the past. A minor manual update, even if it isn’t scheduled, would help clarify this as the current rules are extremely vague and will cause a lot of confusion throughout the year.

The manual is constantly being “updated” through the rulings on the forum.

<G16> All teams must adhere to all VEX Robotics Competition Rules as they are written, and must abide by the stated intent of the rules. Every team has the opportunity to ask for official rules interpretations in the VEX Robotics Competition Question & Answer Forum. All responses in this Q&A forum should be treated as official rulings from the VEX Robotics Competition Game Design Committee, and they represent the correct and official interpretation of the VEX Robotics Competition Rules.

That would make the cage idea illegal as well, which apparently has been ruled legal…

It actually hasn’t. According to this thread cages are still illegal. Hopefully some of the newer Q&A posts will clear things up.

No, you need to go and reread all of the sg6a q&as. It is legal. Or at least the “cage” we’ve been talking about is legal. That’s why there’s so much confusion.

Ugh! I thought I did! I saw that an arm that reaches over the fence and stops a robot from lifting was re-declared legal in a thread, but I didn’t see anything about a cage. So confused.

Karthik, please remedy our confusion, please
No one knows what’s going on anymore

My understanding from reading the various threads and rulings is this: You may extend under, through or over the fence as long as 1) you do not touch the tiles on the opposing side and you do not actively restrict the movement of the opposing robots. As always the pinning/trapping rules only applied when the offended robot attempted to attempt to the pin/trap.

Therefore, as I interpret it, the following would be illegal:

  1. A cage protecting scored objects, if it traps/pins the opposing robot. i.e. restricts them into a space from which they have no avenue of escape.
  2. An appendage that is used to push stars under the fence or from the near zone to the far zone, if it traps/pins the opposing robot. i.e. restricts them into a space from which they have no avenue of escape.
  3. An arm that attempts to prevent your opponent from climbing the pole, if they attempt to climb the pole.

I too, would love to see a definitive answer to this question.

@ET phone home
I do not recall seeing a thread that said that an arm reaching over and attempts to prevent a robot from lifting was legal. Someone, please add the link to that thread, if it is there. Thank you.

I was referring to this thread, but now that I look at it again I see that it means a cage protecting stars, not stopping someone for lifting. My mistake.

Think this is where the main point of contention is (and also what @Owen is trying to get a crystal clear answer) - If I have a 1 tile x 1 tile cage that will prevent the opponents from accessing the game elements, one can also argue that the opponents do not have an avenue of escape from the rest of the 17 tiles into that 1x1 tile that the cage is hovering over.

So… is this still legal?

What we know so far:

@Owen Do definitions of pinning, grabbing, and trapping carry over from previous seasons?

@Owen Since there is no distance requirement listed for trapping, is it safe to assume that walling off 1 tile on the opponent’s side of the fence would be “trapping” them in the remaining 17 tiles? Under my current interpretation this is illegal. If this is not trapping, please give a little more insight into where the line is drawn.

@Owen @Highwayman Is it legal for a robot with an arm to dump stars/cubes over the fence and then hold their arm over the fence in order to block their opponents from getting to the stars/cubes?

@Highwayman At what point does crossing the fence become illegally trapping your opponent?

Summary:
No distance requirement is listed for trapping, which means that blocking 1 tile should be illegal. Or is it? Karthik didn’t actually give a straight answer but his reply suggested it was. But blocking with an arm is legal because there is an avenue of escape? Okay, I don’t know why, but okay. So trapping is blocking an opponent from some part of the field. How much of the field? That only exists as a vague abstraction in Karthik’s mind.

tl;dr Karthik has been giving vague and contradictory answers to this question for a month now and it’s getting old.

Yeah, I was really looking forward to this round of Q & A answers because you and @Highwayman had really good and specific questions, but once again I was disappointed.