Multiple Questions

[Seany735]

1. during a preliminary/qualification match, blue alliance would introduce the negation barrel and the doubler on blue robot 1 before the last 30 seconds, then use it to their advantage (doubling a goal before negating opponents’), then both blue robots travel to occupy the red alliance’s tiles so that they can introduce neither bonus barrel. in this case, if the two blue bonus barrels were counted, blue would win. but blue would lose if they aren’t. blue 1 would be disqualified. but if blue 2 were from the same school, (e.g. teamA and teamB) would it affect blue 2 in any way?

2. during the elimination matches, the blue alliance introduces the doubler too early/wrongly, but does nothing with it until the last 30sec of the match, would the alliance be disqualified? assuming that the red robots did not do anything with it. if the red alliance does so, then how would it affect the match?

3. in a situation where a circular goal is filled to the max with red scoring objects but only a ball would be legally removable, would it be legal for a blue alliance robot to remove/descore the ball by touching and lifting the lower objects so that the ball would drop out of the circular goal?

4. in a situation where blue robot 1 pushes, blocks, etc. red robot 1 on purpose, and somehow red robot 1 gets toppled and entangled onto a empty 30-inch circular goal that causes both blue robots to be trapped into the red isolation zone completely, while leaving red robot 2 to be left undisturbed for over 45sec for more than half the playing field. how would this situation be dealt with? red is in a way “pinning” both blue robots and may cause some damage to the playing field, but this would not occur had blue robot 1 not push red robot 1. who exactly is at fault?

[RoboDesigners]

I’ll attempt to answer, but my answers are unofficial…

@Seany735

1. during a preliminary/qualification match, blue alliance would introduce the negation barrel and the doubler on blue robot 1 before the last 30 seconds, then use it to their advantage (doubling a goal before negating opponents’), then both blue robots travel to occupy the red alliance’s tiles so that they can introduce neither bonus barrel. in this case, if the two blue bonus barrels were counted, blue would win. but blue would lose if they aren’t. blue 1 would be disqualified. but if blue 2 were from the same school, (e.g. teamA and teamB) would it affect blue 2 in any way?

I don’t think it matters at all if the two teams on the alliance are from the same school. However, the entire blue alliance is DQ’d (by my understanding) if the doubler/negation are introduced earlier.

@Seany735

2. during the elimination matches, the blue alliance introduces the doubler too early/wrongly, but does nothing with it until the last 30sec of the match, would the alliance be disqualified? assuming that the red robots did not do anything with it. if the red alliance does so, then how would it affect the match?

Yes. They introduced it. The rules say nothing about introducing and then not using it.

@Seany735

3. in a situation where a circular goal is filled to the max with red scoring objects but only a ball would be legally removable, would it be legal for a blue alliance robot to remove/descore the ball by touching and lifting the lower objects so that the ball would drop out of the circular goal?

I don’t see why not. (we’ve done it ;)) Seriously, though, the rules say nothing about moving the lower objects in the goal - they only talk about descoring them. So, as long as you do it carefully, it should be fine.

@Seany735

4. in a situation where blue robot 1 pushes, blocks, etc. red robot 1 on purpose, and somehow red robot 1 gets toppled and entangled onto a empty 30-inch circular goal that causes both blue robots to be trapped into the red isolation zone completely, while leaving red robot 2 to be left undisturbed for over 45sec for more than half the playing field. how would this situation be dealt with? red is in a way “pinning” both blue robots and may cause some damage to the playing field, but this would not occur had blue robot 1 not push red robot 1. who exactly is at fault?

Blue alliance (by my understanding).

//Andrew

Standard Disclaimer: These answers are unofficial, because I’m not Karthik.

[magicode]

1. during a preliminary/qualification match, blue alliance would introduce the negation barrel and the doubler on blue robot 1 before the last 30 seconds, then use it to their advantage (doubling a goal before negating opponents’), then both blue robots travel to occupy the red alliance’s tiles so that they can introduce neither bonus barrel. in this case, if the two blue bonus barrels were counted, blue would win. but blue would lose if they aren’t. blue 1 would be disqualified. but if blue 2 were from the same school, (e.g. teamA and teamB) would it affect blue 2 in any way?

This post fully answers that question: Answered: Improperly introduced Doubler/Negation Barrel - VRC > Previous Games - VEX Forum

2. during the elimination matches, the blue alliance introduces the doubler too early/wrongly, but does nothing with it until the last 30sec of the match, would the alliance be disqualified? assuming that the red robots did not do anything with it. if the red alliance does so, then how would it affect the match?

The previous post does cover this in part as well. If this was an elimination match, then the entire alliance would be disqualified. It does not matter whether the other alliance does anything with the doubler or not.

3. in a situation where a circular goal is filled to the max with red scoring objects but only a ball would be legally removable, would it be legal for a blue alliance robot to remove/descore the ball by touching and lifting the lower objects so that the ball would drop out of the circular goal?

As long as the ball is able to be legally descored before you start, and no other scores any other objects are changed, this would be legal.

in a situation where blue robot 1 pushes, blocks, etc. red robot 1 on purpose, and somehow red robot 1 gets toppled and entangled onto a empty 30-inch circular goal that causes both blue robots to be trapped into the red isolation zone completely, while leaving red robot 2 to be left undisturbed for over 45sec for more than half the playing field. how would this situation be dealt with? red is in a way “pinning” both blue robots and may cause some damage to the playing field, but this would not occur had blue robot 1 not push red robot 1. who exactly is at fault?

This is not pinning, as has been discussed before. Trapping in the isolation zone is not pinning as long as about 1 field tile of room is left between the robots. I also don’t think that anyone would be at fault for this.

Just like RobotDesigners, my answers are unofficial.

[nallen01]

RoboDesigners and magicode have already done good jobs on each scenario, I just have one thing to add.

@Seany735

1. … then both blue robots travel to occupy the red alliance’s tiles so that they can introduce neither bonus barrel.

Take a look at this thread, more specifically the following part

@Karthik

If an opposing robot is touching your starting tile, you may receive a match load while touching the tile or touching the opposing robot who is touching your tile. You may also place the match load on the opposing robot.

Just so you know that match loads/bonus barrels can still be introduced while a robot is occupying the tile

[dontworryaboutit]

As for question number three, rule SG9 applies:

@<SG9>

Robots are not permitted to alter the score of any Scoring Object that is Scored by clause 1 of the definition of Scored. Once an object is successfully scored under clause 1, a Scoring Object’s value cannot be altered (i.e. the object cannot be descored, and moving this object cannot affect which alliance receives a bonus point) even if it no longer meets the clause 1 requirements. Violations of this rule will result in a Disqualification. (Note: Altering a Scoring Object’s value does not include the use of a Doubler or Negation Barrel).

According to this rule, you may move objects above the plane of the top of the goal as much as you want, but once they are below the plane, they must stay in a scored position (either in the goal or crossing the plane and within the outer ring of the goalposts).

[jgraber]

@Seany735

, then both blue robots travel to occupy the red alliance’s tiles so that they can introduce neither bonus barrel.

According to the Q&A, this strategy need not be effective.
searching Q&A for “pancake” to find this quote:

@Karthik

Any team touching an opposing Robot which is contacting an Alliance Starting Tile will be considered in a legal loading position as per <SG7>. Teams cannot use their Robot to completely prevent accessibility to theAlliance Starting Tile.

This would be a good rule to ask about at the morning drivers meeting with the refs.
There are some Conflicts between the last quoted sentence and
similar discussion of blocking off the entire isolation zone.