NBN Hoarding question

As per SG7 robots aren’t allowed into the opposing alliance’s loading zone.

Does this mean that it is legal for robots to hoard scoring objects into their loading zones to prevent the opposing alliance from scoring them?
After a quick read through of the rules this seems legal as long as while hoarding the robot obeys SG8 (only four balls controlled by the robot at any one time). Please correct me if I’m wrong.

I would assume Karthik would make changes to rules similar to those of Skyrise to rule this illegal. Game strategies that make the competition less interesting have been discouraged. Note I am not talking about wall bots or defensive bots-- they get everyone cheering.

Personally I think storing balls in your zone wastes time while your opponent scores undescorable points. I hardly think you can hoard enough balls fast enough to slow down opponents’ scoring, because the goal is not so big and there are so many balls.

But, always a strategy to consider if this remains legal.

The way I see it, if you’re going to take the time to pick up 4 balls, you might as well score them. There is no advantage to hoarding balls this year. He reason this rule existed for skyrise was due to the presence of alliance specific scoring objects.

I agree with you on that. It would be time wasting but in the UK in regional competitions we get a lot of basebots especially over the course of just one competition (people realise they’re designs don’t work and thus strip their robot down during competition). I can see quite a lot of those teams here implementing that strategy.

This is just a small aside (completely unrelated)
The appendix A field specs refer to the loading zone as the hanging zone consistently.

I see where you’re coming from, but my train of thought is that even if you are just pushing the balls somewhere, you might as well just push them into the goal, especially if it’s closer than your losing zone.

Are you allowed to try and force the balls under the post? I would think that would definitely be illegal. Toss up had a rule similar to that with the big balls.

I haven’t seen the field myself, but from what I’ve heard, it’s fairly easy to push balls under the post, and is allowed.

Here’s a link to a thread that has been discussing that, and where I got my information from.
https://vexforum.com/t/for-the-sake-of-pushbots/29252/1&highlight=sake+pushbots

Basically you can force balls under, but your robot cannot poke into the goal by any means. Just keep that in mind.

You could in theory…but you can’t break the plane of the goal. So how do you push an object into the goal from underneath without breaking the plane of the goal?

It seems the best you could do it get the ball partially wedged under the post. The moment you push it the remainder of the way your robot will be breaking the plane of the goal…wouldn’t it?

I’m pretty sure that pushing the balls under the pole into the scoring goal will be illegal just like pushing the large ball under the poles in toss up was…

Relating to the question which 6053B was asking, is there a safe zone in NBN ? What I mean by that is can a robot enter the opposing alliances starting tiles at all?

Have you considered reading the rules? <SG9> has the answer to your first question, and <SG7> is the answer to the second one you’ve got there.

Appendix A figure page 9 shows the dimensions.

3.81" below the pipe.

7.38" to the top of the pipe. That gives you nearly 10 inches vertical space until you stay under 18" for a scoop to raise and dump up to 4 balls at a time into the low goal.

I’m thinking an ACME 12A Sack Attack robot but much smaller front to back. Keep the pusher flat and not concave to be within rules and the whole thing within 18" high. Hoard flatly, and proceed to scoop and dump 4x each action while your partner shoots all driver preloads across the field. Need some sensors to ensure only 4 objects at a time.

Scooper arm doubles as your climbing arm or the scoop is a ramp in another configuration.

The loading zone is always a protected area, and the climbing zone becomes protected wih 30 seconds remaining.

Also, to my knowledge, there is no rule prohibiting teams from pushing balls under the post. With toss up, the large balls were inflatable, and couldn’t really be compressed. This year, the balls can probably be compressed very easily, and wouldn’t get stuck like the large balls could.

If you push the balls underneath you wouldn’t need to nudge them very much. They would be trying to “re-expand” themselves constantly and they have a 4 in diameter. all you have to do is push it more than half way under. the balls will do the rest of the work themselves.

But that’s the point…in order to push them more than half way under you would have to break the plane of the goal, which is illegal.

Correct?

Maybe. The way I interpreted it, the plane of the goal only goes up to the white tape line under the low post. That would mean that you don’t have to break the plane of the goal.

However, it’s definitely something to ask about on the Q&A.

What if you used other balls to cram the first set of balls all the way under? When I played with the game at Worlds, it seemed not too difficult to push the balls under the grey tube. Would using one set of balls to “break the plane” be considered illegal?

I would see this as a legal strategy…but possibly harder to do than it may seem.

You’d be fine with pushing it under until you go as far as the white line, basically. Those balls that get stuck but are still touching the low goal tile should count as scored, as far as I know.

Its important to remember that the balls have a 4" diameter and the tube only has a 3.75" diameter. which means ideally you should be able to shove them under without breaking the plane of the goal. but i can’t be absolutely certain without the game balls or the field set up