# New Gateway Scoring program

The Green MacHHHHine, team 3129, would like to invite you to check out our new Gateway Scoring program. This program allows you to develop and evaluate your scoring strategies. To see the program, go to our team web site:

http://www.greenmachhhhine.com

Look in the “Recent News” section on the top right of the main page, and click on the white icon there.

The program is written in Flash, so it should work in all browsers. Unfortunately, will not work on an iPhone or iPad.

Feedback and suggestions are encouraged.

Irv Kalb, mentor

PS: While you are there, check out our cool new video of our Round Up robot. Go to the Robots section and click on the Roundup 2010-2011 picture.

nice program!
very convenient for scrimmages and practice
and are you planning on making a iphone/android app for it?

Your program does not calculate the score correctly if a doubler is the first object in a goal. It fails to award the bonus point in that case. It also obviously does not handle the SG3 conditions.

{edit} It also calculates the score wrong if you have 2 doublers & 1 negation or 2 negations & 1 doubler in the same goal.

so what happens if a doubler is the first in a goal?
for example:
D (scored my red), r, r, b (top object)
what would the score be?
thanks

Well, this is my interpretation, but if you think it might not be right then you should ask in the official Q&A for a clarification.

Definitions from the manual:

Note that Ball and Barrel definitions both have the phrase “red or blue” in it. Meaning, in my opinion, that a doubler or negation does not meet the the definition of Ball or Barrel. Thus, when looking at the Bonus Point definition, it says the lowest Ball or Barrel (which the other definitions say have to be red or blue). Therefore it does not matter if there is a doubler or negation underneath the bonus point object, as the BP object is still the lowest red or blue object.

In your example, I’d say Red has 6 points (2 objects + bonus point, doubled) and Blue has 2 points (1 object, doubled).

Again, though, that’s my interpretation. Best to ask the GDC if you think it’s ambiguous.

oh, yeah i should
at first, i thought maybe you can get “quadruple” points XD

murdomeek, PLEASE TO NOT SPAM THE OFFICIAL Q+A. X/

EDIT: I posted the above because I think I’ve seen this question answered in Q+A already. I can’t find that thread now, so I may be wrong. However, there is this one: https://vexforum.com/t/answered-doubler-barrel-in-circular-goal/19508/1 which, though it hasn’t been answered yet, does ask the same question.

Duplicate questions in Q+A get me a bit annoyed because they make it harder for people who try to keep on top of all the rulings (for example people like AURA who run competitions). Of course, making people read a 7-page forum before they can post a question would also be silly, so it might be a bit unfair to blame the people who ask those questions.

I do think the Q+A system needs to be changed, though, so that people who want to read only the unique content can and people who ask questions that already have answers still get their questions answered.

are you being serious there?

EDIT:
alright, sorry i didnt see the thread before

With regard to the question of what happens if the first item is a doubler or a negation barrel, I will be interested to hear the response to your question in the official Q + A about the rules.

However, here is my interpretation. I’ll quote two sections in the rules:

(page 5, Game Definitions) “Bonus Point – A Bonus Point is earned for the lowest Ball or Barrel (closest to the foam field tile) within a Circular Goal.”

(page 7, Scoring) “A Bonus Point earned is worth one (1) point for the Alliance of the color of the Scoring Object.”

Therefore, if a Doubler or a Negation is the first item in a circular goal, since there is no White or Black Alliance, there is no bonus point awarded.

Given this, I would say that if a goal contains (bottom up): Doubler, Red, Red, Blue, then the score would be Red 4, Blue 2 (no bonus points).

That is how my program is doing the scoring … for now.

Irv

I believe that the program handles these conditions correctly. Here are two examples (from bottom up):

1. Red, Blue, Negation, Doubler, Negation.
The Doubler cancels out one Negation, then the second Negation negates the whole score.
Red 0
Blue 0

2. Red, Blue, Doubler, Negation, Doubler.
The Negation cancels out one Doubler, then the second Doubler doubles the whole score.
Red: (1 object + 1 Bonus Point) * 2 = 4
Blue (1 object) * 2 = 2

If you believe that this is not correct, please explain.

Irv

After I’m sure I have worked out any bugs, I can make the “swf” file available for use offline. Contact me offline if you would like a copy (Irv at furrypants dot com). No plans right now to make an iphone or android app.

Irv

<SG8> says the following:

Hence no matter if you have 2x doublers + 1x negator, or 2x negators + 1x doubler, it still only cancels out to give you x1 for the goal.

Yeah sorry, I got a bit rage. not enough sleep recently, etc.

I guess I see the official Q+A differently from most other people - as a place for rules to be created to cover situations that were not adequately covered in the Manual. When I see the same thing being asked more than once I think “Argh why don’t they already know this??” when the obvious answer is because not everyone has the time to read everything Karthik and the GDC have ever written.

Here is a direct pointer to Q&A threads from April (with updates in June)
about many (nearly every possible?) scoring combination.

Aura provided a scoring flowchart in this thread:
https://vexforum.com/t/aura-glenfield-gateway-quiz/19342/1
which also references the official flow chart:

This is exactly why we have a “Rules Lawyer” position on each team. That person is responsible for tracking the rules updates and making sure the team’s robot and strategy stay within the rules.

Jay

Aura provided a scoring flowchart in this thread:
https://vexforum.com/t/aura-glenfield-gateway-quiz/19342/1
which also references the official flow chart:

i just read through the whole thread again, and in no combination, does it start with a doubler or negation as first object
EDIT:
w/e karthik to the rescue!
he just answered and Dave’s interpretation was correct

Given the clarification of the rules, I have modified my scoring program. Specifically, the first Red or Blue scoring object gets the bonus point, no matter where it occurs in the stack.

Version 1.03 is now available here:

http://www.greenmachhhhine.com/scoringprogram.html

(I have not yet implemented rule SG3, there are many cases to consider … still thinking about how to handle them all.)

Irv

Can you make a limit for each goal? I am sure you can make a good guess on how many game objects are going to actually stay in or on top of the goal. This would be VERY helpful! Thanks!

After a negation or doubler barrel has been added to the goal, the score of the goal should not change even if another doubler or negation barrel is dropped in. The scoring program that the link points to does not reflect this behavior.

I would have to agree…